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Thread: Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

  1. #7561
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    I'm an atheist and if a person resurrects a man I just watched the Hound nearly cut in half by saying a prayer, I might not believe it's an actual god, but I will believe it's capable of some crazy trout I didn't think possible.

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    Jinx's Avatar
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    I still don't have to like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Oh I'd smurfing hate it. But I'd be less confused about why people get fanatical about it at least. I suppose that's something. Nothing good but maybe slightly less frustrating?

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    Ghost of Christmas' past Recognized Member theundeadhero's Avatar
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    Most people I've seen are upset with how they handled Arya's surprise killing of the Night King, but guess what they're doing with Bronn? How many people have already forgotten he was sent to kill two of our favorites after a week when they couldn't remember Arya was set up to kill the blue eyes five minutes before it happened? The question is whether he will actually do it or get payed double by Tyrion.

    (Viserion used bite. You take 47 damage. Viserion used flame attack. It misses. Viserion used claw attack. It super effective! You take 103 damage. Rhaegal withdraws.)
    ...

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     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    So I was thinking about Melissandre.

    She knew she was supposed to be at winterfell but she just didn't understand when. She was there with Stannis, and Jon, and now this. I guess she was like "oh...... okay okay okay... it's this time. I got it."

    Lord of Light could be a bit more clear.


    Also, watch this montage about theon as it's great.


  6. #7566

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    It's hard to justify Melisandre's actions considering, among other distasteful things, that she was wrong in regard to the specificsm. The Lord of Light being real doesn't actually provide any more justification for her actions. When you come right down to it she still overconfidently assumed that sacrificing a child would be for the benefit of the greater good and it wasn't. She was wrong to present herself as knowing more and stoming Stannis' fanaticism when she didn't know trout.

  7. #7567
    Trial by Wombat Bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    It's hard to justify Melisandre's actions considering, among other distasteful things, that she was wrong in regard to the specificsm. The Lord of Light being real doesn't actually provide any more justification for her actions. When you come right down to it she still overconfidently assumed that sacrificing a child would be for the benefit of the greater good and it wasn't. She was wrong to present herself as knowing more and stoming Stannis' fanaticism when she didn't know trout.
    I know, it's almost like burning innocent children is something that can't be forgiven.

    Unless you're Theon.

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    Theon showed remorse and suffered for his actions. Melisandre didn't. Also, Theon even says that just because he didn't kill Bran and Rickon doesn't mean that what he did was in any way less heinous.

    Melisandre literally never gave a trout she murdered Shireen and tons of other people lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  9. #7569
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Honestly I think Theon became the character I empathized with the most over the course of the show. He was a dumb little trout who did something really smurfing heinous, paid for it in ways worse than anyone should be put through, developed one horrific and justified case of PTSD in a culture with no understanding of it, and still tried to find ways to do better and be a better person even though he thought he was irredeemable. Bran telling him he's a good man gets me right in the feels.

  10. #7570
    Jinx's Avatar
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    Tbh, I don't even think him betraying Robb was that out of line. Ned Stark smurfing kidnapped him as a child. Why should he feel particular allegiance to the people literally holding him hostage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  11. #7571
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Oh yeah I don't think that was crazy out of line. I can't blame him for wanting to be part of his birth family and jumping at the opportunity to please them. It was more murdering those boys that I meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slothy View Post
    Oh yeah I don't think that was crazy out of line. I can't blame him for wanting to be part of his birth family and jumping at the opportunity to please them. It was more murdering those boys that I meant.
    I know you did, and I very much agree with that statement, I'm just throwing it out there: the Starks might have been kind to him, but he really did owe them nothing in the way of loyalty. Ned especially (the show sort of retconned this both from the books, and within the lore of the show itself) always made sure Theon knew he was a hostage, not part of the family.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  13. #7573
    Jinx's Avatar
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    AND WHILE WE'RE AT IT

    Sansa didn't smurfing betray her family. She did not conspire with the Lannisters. She was a little girl who was being manipulated by a woman she looked up to, and even then, tried to gently argue on her father's behalf. The note she wrote to her family was under duress, which WOW it's almost like Catelyn said that same thing immediately. And as soon as Ned was killed, Sansa completely stopped trusting the Lannisters.

    I haven't seen anything about that here, but all over the internet I see "Sansa's such a dumb , she's a traitor to her family". Okay. She was a naive child being held captive. Nothing she did actually affected her family's situation at all. Let it gooooo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  14. #7574
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Slothy View Post
    Oh yeah I don't think that was crazy out of line. I can't blame him for wanting to be part of his birth family and jumping at the opportunity to please them. It was more murdering those boys that I meant.
    I know you did, and I very much agree with that statement, I'm just throwing it out there: the Starks might have been kind to him, but he really did owe them nothing in the way of loyalty. Ned especially (the show sort of retconned this both from the books, and within the lore of the show itself) always made sure Theon knew he was a hostage, not part of the family.
    I think if Theon himself read your post he'd actually disagree with you and say he did owe the Starks loyalty, and would think so even at the point in the story when he was capturing Winterfell.

    Despite Ned's firm parentage, Theon still perceives him as a second father and Robb as his brother. It was always his wish that Ned would marry him to Sansa and truly take him on as his son. While the concept of taking a child hostage is in and of itself horrible, from whatever can be gleaned from his childhood in the books Theon seemed to actually prefer being raised in Winterfell to Pyke. I think Theon felt he owed the Starks something in the way of loyalty, which is why what he did wasn't an easy choice.

    One thing the show did so much better than the books - and this is a rare sentence indeed! - was having Theon write that letter to Robb warning him about his father refusing Robb's offer and counselling him to marshall his defences... and then burning it.

    It's just an achingly sad story about an unwanted and lost young man who is just craving for love and acceptance. He hurts people he cares about to try to gain it and goes down a truly dark path. I think the philosophy of Stannis is best applied here - the good act doesn't wash out the bad and nor does the bad wash out the good. On a side note, I can't wait to see how Stannis capturing Theon is going to play out in the books - that's a really interesting character pairing that I don't think we saw in the show.

    It's a credit to the story that I can empathise with and fully understand why he burned those two young boys and beheaded Sir Rodrik, as abhorrent as it was, and that I can support and root for his attempt at redemption.

  15. #7575
    Jinx's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I just started rereading the series, so I'll have to reflect on my thoughts there. And I always thought Robb wanted to marry Theon to Sansa, not Ned. ANYWAYS.

    Yes, that will be an interesting character pairing. Considering Stannis' particular form of justice, he might consider Theon's crimes absolved at this point, strictly from a point of balance.

    Regardless my original point that show!Theon deserves redemption and show!Melisandre doesn't is because Theon feels remorse and actively works to do better. Melisandre never feels bad about burning Shireen. At best, she admits that Stannis wasn't Azor Ahai and she made a mistake. What she does during the Battle of Winterfell isn't an act of contrition, but just another part of her religious agenda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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