Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

[Miriel]

As someone who hasn't read the books, the scene where Cat takes Tyrion into custody in the show did NOT play out like a stupid move. That's not how the scene read and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the intention to even try and portray that moment as being stupid.

It came across like a move of desperation and circumstances. It's not her fault that she didn't know that Tyrion is the only sane person in his family. There she is, hiding about and Tyrion (as delightful as he is to the audience) comes strutting about in his rather pompous manner and this is the guy she believes to be an attempted child murderer. Any person without the benefit of being an omniscient viewer might have reacted the same way she did. On the flip side, I can't think of anyone who would have behaved as stupidly as Ned did.

I really have no idea why people are so hellbent on blaming Catelyn for something she had nothing to do with.

My theory is that it's cause Cat doesn't have a dick and many of the other stupid stupid characters do and that somehow makes them less stupid than Cat.

[Shlup]

It's not a terrible theory. Sansa, Dany, and Cat always get trashed as being stupid, while pretty much everyone else seems to get a pass. I tend to believe it's just because Catelyn taking Tyrion into custody was when trout started to hit the fan, and because no one wants to think poorly of their beloved Ned. But, you're right, it really bugs me that those three ladies are trout all over all the time, when they're no better or worse than any other character.

[Miriel]

I only read about Game of Thrones on two sites, here and on Ohnotheydidnt. Here, Cat gets tit on all the time. On ONTD, among the hundreds of comments I've seen, only a handful of people have ever mentioned disliking her in the show or in the books and most people seem to like her very much. ONTD's primarily made up of female posters, like 90% female. I cringe to think of what the hyper misogynistic Reddit people might think of Cat. Based on the show alone, I've liked Cat very much. I thought most of her decisions and actions seem the most normal out of the whole lot of them. Maybe that doesn't mean a ton since so many of the characters are off on one extreme or the other. But still, she makes sense to me. The only thing I don't like about her is her whole honor thing, which is the same thing that annoyed me about Ned and now Rob. Get off your high horses and do some real dirty work. Or you will all LOSE.

Speaking of dumbass decisions, how about Rob's great idea to send Mr. Not-Quite-Right-in-the-Head Greyjoy back to his family. Real smart plan that was.

Also, I wonder if we'll ever get any full frontal of the main male cast. Any chance Jaime gets buck naked in the books? The way things are going, it seems super unlikely. Even Rome and True Blood give us more male eyecandy than this show, it's totally a let down.

[Shlup]

The Game of Thrones subreddit tends not to be too bad. Yeah, Cat and Sansa and Dany get a lot of hate, but there's also a lot of people that defend them. Probably because most of the people that bother to subscribe to that subreddit cherish the books so hard that they're going to have a long think before declaring a character that their beloved GRRM has written as stupid. I see anti-Cat/Sansa/Dany posts often, but when I defend them I get lots of upvotes and no one being a dick to me, which is rare for Reddit. If I were to defend them in, say r/funny or one of the general subreddits, there's a lot more dickery there.

I also have my fingers crossed for some Jaime nudity. If Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was my twin I would be all about incest.

[Rantz]

Also, I wonder if we'll ever get any full frontal of the main male cast. Any chance Jaime gets buck naked in the books? The way things are going, it seems super unlikely. Even Rome and True Blood give us more male eyecandy than this show, it's totally a let down.

Well, Tyrion spreads his legs at one point in the books to reveal something "crooked, red and veiny", I think was the description. Sooo... there's that.

[Freya]

Excuse me, ladies. I do not just hate Cat or dany or sansa because they are female. That's a very broad statement to make. I also hate Jon, Robb, Theon (of course) and a little bit of dislike for Bran but he's a child so I'll give him that. In fact, I think most the characters make ridiculously stupid moves but just because they all make them doesn't mean that one character is abdicated of their stupid moves as well. You're defending one stupid move by throwing out more stupid moves, claiming that people are pointing out hers because she's a female and they have hardons for guys (paraphrasing, of course). Just because others make stupid moves, doesn't mean that hers are any less stupid. Stupid. (had to say it one more time)

The way they handled Jaime's release in the show was less of an impact and made less sense than her grief stricken actions in the book. AKA they made it more of a stupid move than it already was. Which is where this recent discussion came from anyway.

I will admit I like her more in the show than the books and even then I've only read the first three books so far so I'm not all knowing of the series (YET working on it).

I do agree though, there needs to be more fan service to the ladies. The guys get like 4 boobs per episode. We get shirtless Gendry every now and then. WHICH I AM PERFECTLY FINE WITH.

[Shlup]

I can't speak for Miriel, but I wasn't referring to you specifically--it just seems, in general, like people hate those three but forgive all the dumb things all the male characters do. Every character doing stupid things is what makes them realistic and the series unpredictable--the flawed decisions and the consequences that follow are what make the series good.

I'm glad that we all agree about more fan service for the ladies, at least.

[Del Murder]

Based on the information Cat had at the time, Tyrion was the one responsible for Bran's attempted murder. If she is presented with a situation where she can arrest her son's assailant then it makes sense she would take it. It's only later proven that it was a foolish move.

Who was the one who sent that assassin after Bran? Amanda said in an earlier post that it was spoiler?Joffrey but that doesn't make sense because (SPOILER)he was 12 at the time and also probably wasn't aware of his parents' incest and/or why Bran was being targeted. It bugs me that this was never fully resolved. FYI I did read Game of Thrones and I'm halfway through Clash of Kings and it hasn't been addressed fully by that point.

[Jinx]

Also, I wonder if we'll ever get any full frontal of the main male cast. Any chance Jaime gets buck naked in the books? The way things are going, it seems super unlikely. Even Rome and True Blood give us more male eyecandy than this show, it's totally a let down.

Well, Tyrion spreads his legs at one point in the books to reveal something "crooked, red and veiny", I think was the description. Sooo... there's that.

It comes out of a mound of blonde curls, as well.

Also, shirtless Gendry makes me happy.

As for the assassin sent after Bran (SPOILER)it does say in the book that Joffrey was the one who sent him after Bran. There's so much information coming at you, so I can't 100% remember, but...I think it was said that he already knew he was an incest baby? Or something. Hell, I don't know. But after they reveal it was Joffrey, it gets stated many times in the Jaime/Cersei chapters.

[Psychotic]

Yes, arresting Tyrion was smurfing stupid. Why? Well, why the smurf did she arrest him? What evidence did she have that Tyrion killed him? Littlefinger - a man who specifically says he can and should not be trusted - tells her that it is Tyrion's dagger. That is it. Littlefinger, aka the creepy guy who has tried to bone her for her entire life. Never mind that there is no motive whatsoever for Tyrion wanting a young boy killed, never mind that he would be incredibly stupid to use a dagger that is publically known to be his, nope, it's him! Get him! That is what is smurfing stupid.

Also the war was already in motion before Ned was killed. The Lannisters wanted to capture Ned in revenge, so they sent the Mountain to go and rape the riverlands without a banner, leaving dead fish everywhere as a message. The idea was for Noble Ned, Hand of the King, to go and try to sort the Mountain out and get captured and traded for Tyrion. But then Jaime crippled Ned like an idiot and Ned couldn't go, so he sent Beric Dondarrion instead. So yeah, capturing Tyrion started a war.

also sexism? maybe you are the sexists, defending cat and panning ned! Works both ways, you disgusting smurfing female supremacists gtfo my forum!!!! Seriously now, sounds to me like the people with gender equality issues are the ones who think you have to balance out criticising a female character by having to criticise a male one at the same time. FINE, NED STARK IS ALSO DUMB, PROBABLY DUMBER THAN CAT ACTUALLY. AM I FREE TO GO SEXISM POLICE?

[Cuchulainn]

Im pretty sure it wasn't Jaime who sent the catspaw to finish Bran off. I won't say who it was though.

Every action Cat does is self serving. She ignores the bigger picture, doesnt think rationally & is a moron. I understand people defending Dany, I even understand the defence of Sansa, she's a child for smurf sake, but Cat? There is no defence. From her treatment of Jon, to the idiotic belief that someone would hand a catspaw their own knife to secretly kill someone, then arrest that person. Then to other idiotic things i dont want to say as i'm not sure what has and what as not transpired on HBO. She has, time & again, proved herself to be the biggest idiot in the book. Bearing in mind these books also contain patchface & Moonboy.


@Bunny, I suppose saying she CAUSED a war might be harsh but it certainly ignited tit when she took Tyrion.

Plenty of peoples stupidities annoy me in the books. From Dany to Stannis, to Davos to Theon etc even to everyones favorite Tyrion. They've all done tit that's made me say; 'You smurfing idiot'. However not in every chapter....with Jon, Cat & Cersei that happens....EVERY chapter.

If you want to make this an US Vs Them feminist issue knock yourself out.


Also. Tyrion is a paedophile. Discuss

[Miriel]

How are the action of Cat any more self-serving than anyone else?

Also, if my husband boned another woman and brought home that kid to live in our home, I would divorce the dumbass husband. But if that weren't an option as it seemingly wasn't an option for Cat, I would absolutely hate that child. It's not the nicest reaction and maybe someone with more forgiveness wouldn't have taken out their hurt on an innocent kid, but it's an understandable reaction. Someone who ended up being nice to the kid would be an absolutely remarkable and singular person. Cat reacted the same way most women in the same circumstance might have reacted.

Female characters in general get much more criticism than their male counterparts. It's always been like this. Look at any show. Look at the idiotic stuff Dr. House does while still maintaining his likability, versus the idiotic stuff some of his female coworkers have done which have caused the fandom to rain down vitriol on those characters. I'm not immune from it either. Jack was just as dumb as Kate on Lost, but people still hated Kate more (myself included).

Male characters have a longer leash to be stupid and get away with it than female characters.

Yes, arresting Tyrion was smurfing stupid. Why? Well, why the smurf did she arrest him? What evidence did she have that Tyrion killed him? Littlefinger - a man who specifically says he can and should not be trusted - tells her that it is Tyrion's dagger. That is it. Littlefinger, aka the creepy guy who has tried to bone her for her entire life. Never mind that there is no motive whatsoever for Tyrion wanting a young boy killed, never mind that he would be incredibly stupid to use a dagger that is publically known to be his, nope, it's him! Get him! That is what is smurfing stupid.

Littlefinger never told Cat not to trust him, he told that to Ned. To Cat, it seemed like he presented a figure of trust and friendship. And Tyrion is a Lannister, and might have sent an assassin just to protect the family name. Who knows with that smurfed up family. I mean, it wasn't even made clear to the audience who ACTUALLY ordered the hit, so Cat making an impulsive decision at that moment wasn't any more stupid than anything anyone else has done. I think her decision was not thought out. But I think she thought she was in between a rock and a hard place. How else should that scene have played out? "Er... yeah, can you not tell anyone you saw me here? I'm just gonna leave now..."

[Freya]

Tensions are high in here with people thinking cat is not stupid so here have a Gendry Gif



You know what, I don't think that was enough.



He looks so hurt when she said that Like she doesn't need gendry. EVERYONE NEEDS GENDRY

[Jinx]

Omg Chris from Skins, I will always love you.

[Bunny]

I cringe to think of what the hyper misogynistic Reddit people might think of Cat.

This requires explaination. I have very rarely saw a post that came even close to something that could be considered hyper misogynistic, or even slightly misogynistic. Maybe if you go to r/beatingwomen or some bulltrout reddit like that, but that is a relatively small population of Reddit and you have to expect misogyny from people like that. But whatever, small potatoes.


The problem with Catelyn's decisions are that they are personal and inclusive, not necessarily that they are dumb. She is one of the few major characters, and there are others, that make choices and decisions that directly or indirectly effect a large portion of the characters. Letting Jaime go in hopes of getting her children back (when she has no reason to believe this will actually work because the "Lannister's always pay their debts" line is bulltrout: Lannister's always pay their debts when it behooves them to pay their debts). Capturing Tyrion with as little information as she did, while not necessarily a problem in and of itself, is another one of these. The biggest problem with her capture of Tyrion is that she refused to listen to him when he provided logical information to her that disputed what she already believed. Her mind was so made up that Tyrion tried to kill Bran that she refused to listen to anyone saying otherwise. Her decisions, while they did not directly cause the war, had more influence over the dominoes that fell than most other characters did.


Robb's decision to send Theon back to his family was made out of trust and familial love for the boy he considered his best friend and someone he had known since he was a little boy. He grew up with this guy and did not think he would have betrayed him. In hindsight, yeah he probably regrets the decision but he did not know that Theon would betray him at the time because he had no information to the contrary. A stupid decision? Completely, but he didn't have the information that the audience had so you can't really blame him for trusting someone he loved.


Sansa is a stupid girl but eventually grows into a semi-intelligent woman who understands what her actions have done and regrets them. If you dispute this, you are clearly not reading the same books as everyone else. She even states herself that she does not care at all about politics, she just wants to live in a fairy tale world with her lovely prince. Even though that prince has proven, time in again, to be a sadistic little . She grows out of this after Ned is put to death and starts to realize that fairy tales aren't exactly real and that Joffrey is very much not Prince Charming. I go to several forums that are dedicated to the series and everyone's opinions on Sansa are about the same: an idiot to begin with, but she eventually gets wise to the world.


Dany, like Cat, refuses to listen to reasonable suggestions around her. She also does not understand how politics work. This is mostly a reflection on how she grew up. She was, esssentially, raised on the run by an idiot who thought his name meant everything. She grew up thinking that her Targaryen blood meant she was above everyone else and that people would love her simply because of who she was. Other, much wiser people, understand that this may not be the case and so suggest she do things differently. She rebukes them because she believes with all her being that she only needs to show up and say "Sup, Aegon was my daddy." and people will line up in droves to be members of her ever-increasing army of dragony goodness. She eventually grows out of this and starts to see the logic behind her actions, although she is still a stubborn little girl from time to time. Her current story, in the show and in the books, is necessararily boring because it impacts her eventual growth that much more.


Ned was not stupid. He was honorable. There is a difference and it is pretty significant. He made stupid decisions because he made the mistake of everyone being just as honorable as he was. He thought that everyone wanted what was good for the kingdom, even if it wasn't necessarily good for specific people. He died because he refused to play the game of politics that everyone else was playing. Yea, he was a bit dumb, but only so far as he refused to see reason.


Catelyn's actions are, from a motherly point of view, very understandable and completley reasonable. However, that does not mean they are smart. The biggest problem with Catelyn isn't that she is making stupid decisions, it's that she refuses to see why the decisions are stupid. LIke I said, she has absolutely NO reason to believe that the Lannister's would free Sansa and Arya (since she doesn't know Arya isn't in King's Landing). As long as Robb has Jaime as his captive, his sisters are completely safe. The Lannister's would absolutely not harm Sansa and Arya if they knew that harm would come to their favored son. Catelyn not only ruins this by letting him go, but she refuses to understand why letting him go was such a bad decision. She isn't dumb because she makes stupid decisions because, yes, all of the characters make stupid decisions. What sets her apart from most of the cast is that she refuses to acknowledge why her decisions might be stupid.

Also calling everything sexist or misogynistic is dumb. Just because dudes don't get naked on the screen does not mean the creators of the show are blatantly sexist. It just means that dudes aren't getting naked on the screen as much.