Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

[Bunny]

I just don't get what Cat expected to happen. They hand over Jaime, and the Lannisters suddenly say "Oh, nice one. Here, have Sansa back."? I don't think the Lannisters are so gracious. If I were at war, I wouldn't expect my enemy, regardless of who they were, to be so gracious.

This is the core of the issue.

Politically, releasing Jaime was akin to suicide and/or death for Robb's army. As a mother of a dwindling family, the move is understandable. Even then, however, as the mother of the King of the North, who is currently engaged in a war with a family who is known to be less than trustworthy, Catelyn done smurfed up.

Catelyn's move, while understandable in certain aspects, was one of the reasons why she is one of, if not the, dumbest characters in the books and series. Kudos to the actress for the great portrayal.

[Formalhaut]

The thing with Cat's mistake is that, it's effect are a lot more subtle. It's only later on that the effects of losing Jaime weigh heavily on the bannermen, in particular the Karstarks. It was definitely a demoraliser.

You can't say though that Cat was one of/if not the dumbest character(s) around, because I can think of a multitude of characters who made similar, dumb mistakes. Edmure Tully and his lack of tact, resulting in the retreat of the Lannisters and their attrition gambit. Robb and Talisa, effectively severing ties with the already disloyal Freys and Robb beheading Karstark? Theon who has been a complete idiot so far? Cersei and her ruthless rule resulting in mass rioting? Joffrey and the beheading of Ed Stark resulting in the war in the first place?

Cat was stupid in hindsight sure, but at the very least she had mitigating circumstances behind her, and at the time it certainly seemed like a decent idea. Meanwhile, Robb had three advisors telling him to not kill Karstark and that he'll lose that part of the army, and... he still goes through with it. The same with Joffrey.

[chionos]

Cat's more selfish than stupid. But she's heaps of both.

Robb's decision is stupid. But it's necessary. It wouldn't fit his character or Martin's world for him to do otherwise.

[Lonely Paper Star]

... In case you wanted a recap of S3E05, Facebook style.

[chionos]

That was bloody fantastic.

[McLovin']

Book spoilersMy favorite ASOIAF fan art - Imgur

Awesome artwork.

And also:

[Jinx]

Possible season 3 spoiler/hints. Watch this video with caution.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Possible season 3 spoiler/hints. Watch this video with caution.

I like the part about Roose. "And he doesn't give a trout" xD

[Shlup]

A Lannister always pays his debts, ya'll. Jaime is Tywin's favored child, Cersei's lover, and a leader in the war. Sansa is... a notable hostage, but that's it as long as Robb's alive. They wouldn't even be able to offer both girls, though I doubt they'd be willing even at that point to admit they don't have Arya. And none of you think the Lannisters would have done the trade? The Lannister legacy is what means the most to Tywin; he wouldn't've kept Jaime while rejecting the offer outright. The trade was in the Lannister's favor by far.

Cat isn't selfish at all. She's lost her husband, her two youngest son's, potentially her daughters, and her oldest son is leading a war. And her one chance to get her daughters back was facing death by mob. If there's anyone here who wouldn't do the same for their children, you're a troutty, troutty person.

[Loony BoB]

A Lannister always pays his debts, ya'll. Jaime is Tywin's favored child, Cersei's lover, and a leader in the war. Sansa is... a notable hostage, but that's it as long as Robb's alive. They wouldn't even be able to offer both girls, though I doubt they'd be willing even at that point to admit they don't have Arya. And none of you think the Lannisters would have done the trade? The Lannister legacy is what means the most to Tywin; he wouldn't've kept Jaime while rejecting the offer outright. The trade was in the Lannister's favor by far.

Lannisters might pay their debts, but it would leave them at a disadvantage on the hostage end of things as they would be giving up their only Stark hostage while the Starks still have (well, had, ha!) the nephews.

Also, regarding how the Lannisters 'always pay their debts', I don't believe this is 100% true and they can twist their debts to their will. As far as Tywin or Joffrey are concerned, one of them could easily say he owes them nothing for the return of Jaime whatsoever.

That Facebook thing is hilarious, Paper Star.

[Shlup]

Lannisters might pay their debts, but it would leave them at a disadvantage on the hostage end of things as they would be giving up their only Stark hostage while the Starks still have (well, had, ha!) the nephews.

You're assuming the Lannisters have no Stark hostages. Lesser hostages are mostly just ransomed anyway; taking Jaime is a very big deal.

Also, regarding how the Lannisters 'always pay their debts', I don't believe this is 100% true and they can twist their debts to their will. As far as Tywin or Joffrey are concerned, one of them could easily say he owes them nothing for the return of Jaime whatsoever.

Uhm, no. That would be extremely out of character for Tywin to allow that.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Possible season 3 spoiler/hints. Watch this video with caution.

(SPOILER)Given Roose's ties with the Lannisters, the whole thing does have some credence. Even if she is a spy planted by Tywin, I doubt she will survive what's to come.

[Pike]

I keep thinking that Jaime made that whole Kingslayer story up.









(Somebody is going to spoil this for me aren't they)

[Ouch!]

Tywin Lannister stood at the gates of Kings Landing and sacked the city; if you honestly think he would have honored an exchange he never agreed to, you don't understand Tywin Lannister very well.

Read this if you want Pike:You're never going to hear anyone contradict him. What he said was true, but it's never going to be addressed again. That chapter in the book is told from his point of view, and he's not lying.

[Jinx]

Possible season 3 spoiler/hints. Watch this video with caution.

(SPOILER)Given Roose's ties with the Lannisters, the whole thing does have some credence. Even if she is a spy planted by Tywin, I doubt she will survive what's to come.

I'm not sure I *actually* believe this theory, but I still think that the person who made the video spent a LOT of time nitpicking scenes and putting this together. I just thought it was a cool video, and that they present a very convincing argument.

Also, Loony BoB. The two Lannister cousins you're referring to (the little boys killed by Karstark, right?) were not Stark captives at that point. The Starks didn't take them until this season.