Shooters, mouse and keyboard or analogue sticks does it really make a difference?

[Iceglow]

Ok so there was a debate to give it a more friendly term in #eoff tonight between myself, Kotora, Jiro and Bert. The debate was on whether the use of a Keyboard and Mouse was better for shooters or the analogue stick. Kotora and Bert argued with physics on their side that using a mouse = greater surface area to aim in, greater maneuvering ability due to full hand content and therefore was more accurate. In theory this is true. However my counter argument was to point out videos such as the various player montages you see from people playing Halo Reach, MW2, Black Ops, Killzone even and any other number of console based shooting games. The accuracy of some of these players is just sheer amazing.

Accuracy imho is to do with the player not their input method. If a player is good and has a high accuracy rating then that is going to show using either control method. Ok so sure analogue shooter controls take some getting used to it's not quite the same and most shooter players originally were pc gamers I know I was. 10 years ago I'd have laughed if you told me my average k/d would not only be better than it was then it would be better using a control pad for my games I'd have laughed in your face. These days I can barely remember how it feels to shoot with keyboard and mouse.

I would argue that if a player cannot use both methods of control or is accurate with a mouse but whilst of equal skill has an accuracy rating well below their mouse gaming sessions it is merely the player who is inferior not the control method.

Opinions?

[escobert]

I like kitties and kitties like mice!

[NorthernChaosGod]

Well console shooters are just better. So let's go with that.

[o_O]

With analog sticks, smaller movements are required to achieve the same level of accuracy as a mouse, therefore sharper fine motor skills are required.

Therefore, a mouse is inherently easier to use than analog sticks.

That's not saying you can't be as good at using sticks as a mouse, just that it takes better muscle control.

[VeloZer0]

With a mouse you can use the whole of your hand/wrist to articulate, with a console you are only using your thumbs.

Physiologicaly it makes more sense to use larger muscles for larger movements (wrist) while the smaller muscles (fingers) do the fine honing work as the larger muscle moves. In this case you wrist would be moving you towards the target while your fingers perform the fine micro adjustments to get a head shot. When using your thumb you have to perform every range of movement through the same muscles. I'm no kinesiologist, but everything I learned from sports/coaching would indicate the mouse is a physically superior control scheme for aiming.

[Hollycat]

mouse
*mew*

[Jiro]

I forget what I said in chat. I think a player with incredible skill at both stick and mouse would still perform better with a mouse however this thesis is completely unfounded because I have near 0 pc shooter experience. And I'm at it anyway.

[kotora]

Well console shooters are just better. So let's go with that.

yeah if you're a total creep who likes to talk to 12 year olds all day

[Madame Adequate]

Controllers aren't bad. But the keyboard + mouse combo is nonetheless vastly superior. Nothing to do with 'skill' or consolefags vs. pc master race, just simply truth that the option which offers greater control fidelity, a far greater number of buttons, and much more customization is better.

[ljkkjlcm9]

It's pretty simple actually.

A player can be good with either one. However, as people have already suggested, it is inherently EASIER to be accurate with a mouse than a joystick. If you had the choice between aiming a gun with a finger, or your entire hand, which would you choose?

Of course, I'm also of the belief that correct settings with a Wii mote (and now Move controller) are even better, as exemplified by Metroid Prime, or even the full customization in The Conduit. At least, better in that if you are accurate with an actual gun.

My reasoning behind this would be the fact that most shooters, such as Call of Duty, have it so that even if you don't touch the aim at all(mouse or stick) the gun "sways" to create realism. However it's not very real if you actually have a very steady hand. This bothers me in those games because lets face it: If I am a Black Ops Sniper, I will have pretty damn steady hands! However with a Wii-mote, the gun is as steady as you are. So if you have steady hands, the gun is steady!

THE JACKEL

[VeloZer0]

That is just game design, it has nothing to do with the input medium. If a game is designed to sway with no input then it will sway weather the wii mote is giving no input or the mouse is giving no input. If you played the same game with both the wii mote wouldn't have any inherent advantage.

The fact that sway in a mouse is so minuscule that it has to be added artificially tells you how stable a control scheme it is.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

There's also the fact that if you're playing with gaming mice, they often have their own sets of drivers wherein you can control the sensitivity to a much larger degree than the right analog stick. Skill level aside, a good mouse with proper settings will outstrip a controller.

From experience, I am far more accurate with a mouse than with a controller, though in part it is because I rarely play first person experiences (either shooters or RPGs like Oblivion) on a console. In the end, a mouse personally feels more natural when it comes to such games.

[Iceglow]

But just because one is easier than the other doesn't make it automatically "better" it makes it more convenient but not better. You could argue that a player with 90% accuracy rating in the console based version of Call Of Duty (you pick which version) is simply better than someone with a rating of 90% accuracy on the PC. Especially since the PC players in this thread have conceded that it is easier to use a mouse than it is to use a right analogue stick.

Ofcourse proper gaming mice and keyboard/mouse combination layouts make for much more control and we've all been dicked over by a context sensitive game pad button "No! Re-smurfing-load not smurfing board the smurfing nub seat or change weapon" but again, easier doesn't mean better automatically. And the common argument about accuracy still hasn't been argued. Accuracy would still be player dependent whether a move of 1mm in a direction on the control moves 1 pixel or 1cm (if this is a problem, your sensitivity is too high, back it down ok) as Kotora tried to argue last night.

[escobert]

it's easier to control so therefore better

[Iceglow]

Yeah but this is like the Nintendo 3DS, if it hurts your eyes, you're doing it wrong. If analogue sticks are too difficult for you, you're doing it wrong.