Is ATB Dead?

[Bolivar]

I don't see why we can't move to real time battles really. Games like the Tales series have been doing it for years with relative success.

You make it sound like real time is intrinsically, by virtue of what it is in and of itself, better than turn based.

[ShinGundam]

I don't see why we can't move to real time battles really. Games like the Tales series have been doing it for years with relative success.

But "Tales of" games aren't completely in real time, they have walk mode and fight mode.

[Jiro]

Real time battles, not seamless battles

And I'm not of the opinion that Real time is better than turn based at all, but I think it would better suit the style that RPGs are heading. They're trying to create one style of game while using a battle system that doesn't mesh all that well and it just comes off a little bit meh.

[Bolivar]

Real time battles, not seamless battles

And I'm not of the opinion that Real time is better than turn based at all, but I think it would better suit the style that RPGs are heading. They're trying to create one style of game while using a battle system that doesn't mesh all that well and it just comes off a little bit meh.

It might better suit it, but I'm not entirely enthusiastic about the style that RPGs are heading towards, at least on home consoles.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm not fond of the direction battle systems are going either with modern games. I quit playing action games predominately for RPGs and its seems ironic that the turn base system has evolved into an action game.

[ShinGundam]

I'm not fond of the direction battle systems are going either with modern games. I quit playing action games predominately for RPGs and its seems ironic that the turn base system has evolved into an action game.

Actually, the direction Battle systems are going for is the typically MMORPG-influenced not Action (e.g. Lots of grinding/farming, collecting junk of this and that then put them on sell).

[Jiro]

Well, to be fair, RPGs have nearly always adhered to the Grinding is Good mentality.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm not fond of the direction battle systems are going either with modern games. I quit playing action games predominately for RPGs and its seems ironic that the turn base system has evolved into an action game.

Actually, the direction Battle systems are going for is the typically MMORPG-influenced not Action (e.g. Lots of grinding/farming, collecting junk of this and that then put them on sell).

While its true its more of an MMO style, there is also the Tales franchise, and I'm not really fond of the action gameplay of that either.

[ShinGundam]

I'm not fond of the direction battle systems are going either with modern games. I quit playing action games predominately for RPGs and its seems ironic that the turn base system has evolved into an action game.

Actually, the direction Battle systems are going for is the typically MMORPG-influenced not Action (e.g. Lots of grinding/farming, collecting junk of this and that then put them on sell).

While its true its more of an MMO style, there is also the Tales franchise, and I'm not really fond of the action gameplay of that either.

Battle system-wise, I always thought of the "Tales of" games as Brawlers with mainstream RPG elements; it was easier to relate to this description when trying to play it than relate them with "action-rpg" games to me. Still not my kind of combat systems anyway. XD

[Bastian]

While I can enjoy a Tales of game just fine, I still prefer either straight up ARPG (Mana, Crystal Chronicles, etc) or JRPG with turn-based battles (DQ). In games that offer the option of having ATB or turning it off, I turn it off, usually.

And I don't understand why people say modern console JRPGs cannot have completely turn based or even ATB battles. Look at DQ VIII, it was modern for it's time on the Ps3 and did a great job with turn based.

[Bolivar]

With the recent demonstrations of Dragon Quest X, it may unfortunately be the case that all turn base is in fact dead. While it looks like participants take one action every round of combat, you're moving around the battle screen and such. Oh well, there's still handhelds...

[Del Murder]

Really? Even DQ is going real time? Argh!

[felfenix]

I find stricktly turn based system incredibly boring. And yes, FF13 did indeed have a sort of ATB, too bad the AI characters ruined it.

I've never understood that mentality. ATB is basically turn based, but you have to watch a bar fill up between turns, so it actually takes longer. In turn based, you just cut straight to the turn, without any periods of everybody doing nothing, waiting for a bar to fill up. ATB, to me, was the aspects of turn based, combined with the worst aspects of real time.

[Bastian]

I've never understood that mentality. ATB is basically turn based, but you have to watch a bar fill up between turns, so it actually takes longer. In turn based, you just cut straight to the turn, without any periods of everybody doing nothing, waiting for a bar to fill up. ATB, to me, was the aspects of turn based, combined with the worst aspects of real time.

But... it's Active. If you do nothing, the enemies are gonna keep attacking you until you're dead. That's the big difference between ATB and non-Active.

With the recent demonstrations of Dragon Quest X, it may unfortunately be the case that all turn base is in fact dead. While it looks like participants take one action every round of combat, you're moving around the battle screen and such. Oh well, there's still handhelds...

Er.. no. Your "turn" is based on a specific period of time and I really don't think "you're moving around the battle screen" manually. It looks like they're using the same version they used in DQIX where you select Attack and then it causes your character to run up and attack and run back to starting position.

[Bolivar]

I find stricktly turn based system incredibly boring. And yes, FF13 did indeed have a sort of ATB, too bad the AI characters ruined it.

I've never understood that mentality. ATB is basically turn based, but you have to watch a bar fill up between turns, so it actually takes longer. In turn based, you just cut straight to the turn, without any periods of everybody doing nothing, waiting for a bar to fill up. ATB, to me, was the aspects of turn based, combined with the worst aspects of real time.

Only if you're playing on 'Wait'. If you play on the actual 'Active' mode, the battle is always unfolding and you have to make smart decisions on the fly if the pacing ensures a good challenge or you've ran from enough battles to maintain one. Also, if the game incorporates charge times, like FFIV or Tactics, it adds in yet another layer of strategy because when each character does something becomes far more important. Another advantage to ATB is targeting - many games would be worse off if you had to choose your initial targets and simply hope for the best.

One of the brilliant parts about FFVII was the 'Recommended' setting. It paused the bars for the super-lengthy animations, but everything else remained active. It went well with the game's theme of being super cinematic (being the first game to do so) but still having great RPG gameplay.

Overall, it makes everything more intense than traditional turn based, which essentially turns half of the battle into a cut scene, but still has that strategy you simply can't get from real time. I love ATB.