If games can be art, then which ones are?

[Mirage]

Well, how do you define art?

Are erotic movies art? Is the parody game "Matt Hazard" art? Is Futurama art?

I would answer yet to all of those, and therefore also yes to "even the dumbest retard-FPS game ever made". Sure, I wouldn't like it, or think it was worth even opening the game's cover, but that's my subjective opinion on the game's quality. It is not impossible that somewhere in the world, there is a person who actually enjoys this game that I thought was utterly terrible. Just like there are people who absolutely loathe the movie "Kung Pow", even if I think it has decent artistic merit as a kung-fu parody.

[Slothy]

Because gaming is a unique amalgamation of storytelling, images, animation, and music, there are games I consider art for two different reasons.

A) Some games I consider art because their stories introduce themes, explore the complexity of them, and in the end present some kind of conclusion to the consumer, if not probing them to think about it further. Games like this are:

1. Metal Gear Solid 4
2. Far Cry 2
3. Metal Gear Solid 2
4. Heavy Rain
5. Stacking

B) Other games have what probably pass as poor or cliche stories, but their efforts are so progressive in putting together a visual presentation, they can't not be art:

6. God of War III
7. Valkyria Chronicles
8. Ico
9. Dragon Quest VIII
10. Killzone 3

The problem I have with the two categories of games as art you list here is that it focuses solely on story and visual presentation. While these are certainly large aspects of a lot of games the question it brings to my mind is, where does the actual game itself come into play in defining a game as being a work of art? Because the categories you're listing here are shared with books, movies, and TV, and don't specifically identify where the actual interaction comes in and how it affects the overall experience.

So with that in mind, I'm actually going to get away from a general list I may have otherwise come up with and go in a bit of a different direction than I originally intended. Because the true triumph of games considered art by a lot of people such as Ico and Shadow of the Colossus as far as I'm concerned isn't in the stories or the visual design alone, but how the gameplay complements and is complemented by the other elements. Ico isn't amazing for being a cleverly designed puzzle game about a boy and a girl escaping a castle. It's amazing for the subtle ways it forces you to work with and look after Yorda. When you open a door remotely for her, or catch her as she jumps across a gap. The real characterization and development is in the gameplay. The same can be said for Shadow of the Colossus, where you move from exhilaration as you're climbing a Colossus, to almost a sadness as the creatures fall to the ground dead by your blade, the sheer scale of the gameplay demonstrating both Wanders determination and the importance of the young woman to him, while the traditional victory screen is subverted to make you wonder if what you're doing may not be right at all.

And what of games like Mirror's Edge where the sheer freedom of movement can snap you back and forth from moments of sheer joy as you fly across rooftops and between buildings, to spine tingling terror when you fall and see the ground racing up to meet you? Or games like Starcraft and Brood War which over time reveal an amount of depth and complexity that no one, not even the developers ever truly predicted or intended?

At what point do we get over ourselves and admit that a game can evoke emotion and feeling simply by virtue of interacting with it? Because these are only a few of the games I think really cross over into the realm of art not just based on visuals or story, but through the experience of interacting with all of the elements. It's the gameplay that ties everything together, and in an interactive medium like this it also becomes not only the most important single aspect of the game itself, but also the one place where we can really see games tread new ground and set themselves apart from other mediums.

[nik0tine]

I agree with Vivi completely. The 'whole' is what determines whether or not something is a work of art, not the individual parts. I think Final Fantasy is a good example of this. In my mind, Uematsu is an artist without question even though I cannot say the same for most of the games themselves. There may not be a universal standard for what constitutes art, but there is one aspect that nobody can deny and that is that art is the synthesis of elements. When the individual elements in a work do not synthesize well it is either A) bad art or B) artless. I generally go with option B because I refuse to accept that every last thing ever created is a work of art but some people obviously disagree.

[Rostum]

To me art is something that can evoke emotion to the audience. Many have pointed out the story and visual presentations, and I believe that's certainly valid, but I also think game design in itself can be considered art.

In more words than I care to write, Vivi22 has pretty much explained this. The process of designing something to create an emotional rollercoaster for the audience, to me, is a good sign of what is art.

Case in point, outside of Vivi22's examples. From what I've seen at E3 and what the developers are talking about, this is pure art even moreso from a game design point of view.

[Polnareff]

Okami: Because it's so obvious I shouldn't need to provide an explanation

This times 100.

I'll also throw Street Fighter 3: Third Strike in there and King of Fighters XIII for how smooth they are, on top of having the best 2D visuals I've seen in a fighting game.

[DMKA]

Ico

[Bolivar]

At what point do we get over ourselves and admit that a game can evoke emotion and feeling simply by virtue of interacting with it? Because these are only a few of the games I think really cross over into the realm of art not just based on visuals or story, but through the experience of interacting with all of the elements. It's the gameplay that ties everything together, and in an interactive medium like this it also becomes not only the most important single aspect of the game itself, but also the one place where we can really see games tread new ground and set themselves apart from other mediums.

That whole post is treading really new ground because the concept of interaction provoking emotion and thought is something that I don't think has been formally recognized. But I think once we understand it a little better, that's where video games are going to come out as an unmatched medium.

It's really tricky, because traditionally, gameplay itself isn't something you would consider art. The classic argument is "Chess players don't get all defensive about whether what they do is art, so why do video game players?" I kinda agree with that (but what you said is slightly changing my mind). For example, David Jaffe once gave the example of when you're playing a war game, and you're in the middle of taking a hill, you're not thinking about the politics of war, the expendability of life, the duty/honor of a soldier - you're thinking about the game mechanics and the resources at your disposal and the strategy involved in how to accomplish the task at hand. I might even go as far as to posit that in Ico & Shadow, you're still focused on the set rules within that game's universe of mechanics and what can and cannot work. The stuff that already is art, the animation, images, music, and storytelling, are all brought up as a consequence of gameplay, whether you succeed and get to see new stuff or fail and have to start over again.

Obviously a lot of games (and to some extent, those two games) defy this. I think what makes me agree with you most is the end of Metal Gear Solid 3 (SPOILER)where the game waits for you to euthanize The Boss. I do think maybe you're onto something, interaction as art, but it needs to be hashed out more before there's a real basis for it.

[blackmage_nuke]

I feel most games are art, like most paintings are art, no matter how uninspired and trite they are.

Now as for games that are "masterpieces"

Ico
Shadow of the Collossus
Metal Gear Solid
Final Fantasy VI and several others
Portal 1, Portal 2
Chrono Trigger
Monkey Island 2
Most Touhou Games

Maybe I'll give reasoning later.

[Chris]

Abes Exodus and Oddysee, for their time, these games had amazing backdrops, every location was unique (atleast in my memory it was lol) and lets not forget, these games were epic fun to play.

I absolutely agree with this statement. I remember being in such an awe the first time I played both of those games. They had everything. I would even go so far as to say that the first game was groundbreaking. It was just that good in every aspect.

Streets of Rage II was and is a perfect example of how one game can take all the good aspects of a genre and fuse them into one piece of perfect side-scrolling art.

[Mo-Nercy]

Either all are, or none are. It'll just be varying subjective opinions on how "good" art it is.

Just like even the crappiest movie ever made is still really art. Just not very good art (which again is subjective. Maybe the director thinks it's the most wonderful movie ever).

I agree.

Okami: Because it's so obvious I shouldn't need to provide an explanation

I agree.

Also, Little Big Planet.

[Del Murder]

Mario Paint.

[Shoeberto]

I ctrl+F'd for it. I did not see it. You guys are smurfing terrible. You pick all the low-hanging fruit but completely eschew Silent Hill 2? I'm embarrassed for all of you.

Some of the other choices I saw as I skimmed were good though. Silent Hill 2 absolutely belongs in the list as a work that helps define how games can be art, though.

[escobert]

Saga Frontier 2
Beautiful world and design. Very interesting world

Guild Wars
Very stunning and beautiful landscapes and cities. The world seems alive at times

Final Fantasy Tactics
Story is amazing, the world is perfect for the mood and setting.

[Big D]

I'd say that games can be art the same way that paintings, sculptures or films can be art. Not every example will be considered a work of art, but the medium itself sure counts as a type of art.

[Yar]

Zelda Ocarina of Time!