I'm the opposite, I feel if your character is important enough to be playable, they need to have justification. Course, I prefer ensemble casts cause trying to play through a game where you don't like the leads (VII, X) makes it unbearable cause the game won't shut up about them. Whereas I always feel bad when some characters (like most of VIII's cast) had the potential to be interesting, but are constantly shoved into the background so the game can focus more on the leads.Originally Posted by champagne supernova
Play the GBA versions of the 16-bit games. They are significantly better in terms of translation and localization. VI definetly needed it, but I feel FFIV and V benefited more from it. As for bringing your own point of view...But I am going to argue that you are putting your own perspective on a story, adding additional meaning that was not intended or accurately portrayed in the older stories. Basically, you are fitting a meaning that you want to evidence that is ambiguous. Of course, I just found out that the SNES translations of FF games are appalling, so I'd probably have to play the GBA versions to more accurately comment on what is what.My point comes back to the difference between the Celes scene and the Cloud/Tifa scene is that the player is given more responsibility to understand the content and context of the moment in the Celes scene, whereas the scene in VII leaves little to the players imagination cause it repetitively verbalizes what the characters are thinking and feeling. The scene in VI is the player taking the role of Celes, whereas the scene with Cloud and Tifa is the player watching them. Both have their strengths and weakness as medium for story telling, but I have to be bias towards VI in this because the scene asks more from the player whereas VII's scene is pretty straightforward about what the characters are trying to convey and leaves little for the player to think about. You just take it for face value, you never really stop to think what the characters are thinking cause they already told you. I feel this is the difference between watching a story and experiencing it, cause part of what makes the story special is what you bring to it.
That's the point though, you the player yourself are able to add your own touch to the story, which I feel is far better than having the author say "this is how it is and its not debatable, unless I change my mind 10 years later..."
Honestly though, I feel that the argument Vivi22 had about the buildup for the Celes Suicide is anything but a leap of the imagination, when you really think about it. Is it so unreasonable to believe time was passing by as Celes fished? That after learning all the horrible truths of the WoR, and watching her father figure pass away, as she vainly tried to save him, on top of the realization she may be all alone in the world, is not enough to make her snap, and commit towards suicide? I mean, its not a very big leap here and I don't feel that driving it home with extra scenes would really strengthen the moment, it would simply just prove that the writer had little faith in its audience to get the meaning.
Hell, the VII example you gave, implies that Tifa and Cloud got it on, but its just as easy for someone to think that they just fell asleep next to each other. Its not like they were naked when they woke up, and had to get dressed, or you even see them kiss and imply a more energetic physical exchange, yet fans were still able to understand what the author was implying. Sometime, its better to let the audience come to their own interpretation, instead of holding their hand the whole time, cause you're afraid they may misinterpret the meaning. If they do, its because you didn't do a good job writing it, or you had a shoddy translation.
I disagree here, and I know we've had this discussion before. For me, saying you don't like item management/grinding in an RPG is like saying you don't like aiming in a FPS. You're literally attacking the only real challenge in the game, and a gameplay mechanic that has been part of the genre since Dragon Quest. Once you take it away, there is no real challenge anymore, without implementing other, oftentimes just as stupid mechanics like XIII did. I actually prefer the longer dungeons with a few puzzles thrown in for good measure. It makes each new story event feel like an accomplishmentGameplay is a bit of an iffy one. I find that the dungeons in all FFs can get very tedious except for XIII because I spend half my time recovering after a fight and worrying about items etc (or in XII, waiting for my MP to recover). Because of this, many ordinary battles were just a grind of attack etc, which becomes very dull, especially as you cannot avoid them (and that is not a technology thing - Chrono Trigger). XIII was less of a slog because enemies were more challenging (as you automatically recovered after battle) and you were unrestrained in using abilities (because there was no MP). However, it definitely pulled the balance to something too simple, and definitely needs to be more intricate going forward. And it also got tiring near the end to continually stagger enemy, maul them, etc etc.
Anyway, my point is that FF's gameplay has always had its issues. I find that the older ones had more grinding than the newer ones as well, and I HATE grinding. If I want to battle enemies, I will battle enemies. But don't force me too.
I pretty much hate the dungeons of the more modern FFs. While FFXII were mostly fine, I did miss the heavier puzzle aspects from the older titles, and FFX and XIII's dungeon were so tediously simple, I often wonder why the game bothered having them in the first place cause they present no challenge and they were rarely connected to the events of the story in XIII's case. Once the challenge is stripped from them, everything else begins to lost its purpose.
The best RPGs I've played in the last couple of years are often times the ones that actually adhere to the old rules of utilizing item management, labyrinth-style dungeons, and more focus on exploiting weaknesses. I don't see how you can have fun in a game where everything is simply handed to you; as long as you're willing to navigate a character to the next plot point.
I also disagree with XIII being challenging, the fights are fairly easy when the game doesn't screw you over by making Hope the lead character or cast an instant death spell that every character survives except for your hopeless leader, is more annoying than challenging, and having your failure simply zap you back to just before the fight with no consequences just defeats the entire point of making this a "life or death" struggle. Its almost like playing in god mode and I wonder what is the point of it all? You actually need the item management aspect to give RPGs a challenge. If the FF series only wants its audiance to enjoy the story and characters, it needs to end as a game series and just become a film project cause once you remove the relevancy of the gameplay side, their is no point cause it doesn't add anything to the game. XIII is a title where the gameplay and story are simply divorced from each other. You could easily get the same experience from XIII by watching the cutscenes on Youtube.
It was 94 actually, and you act like VI fans spend all day bemoaning VI's graphics.EDIT: I think there is still a market for fixed focus, 2D-ish titles. But that isn't really 16-bit. If Square are going to do it, they could at least have detailed scenery etc, because nobody wants to play through a world that is visually so repetitive as VI (and yes, I know it is varied and awesome for its generation, but it's not 1991 anymore). As I said, there are games that combine the old-school with new-school graphics and design style and do it very well. That is something I would like Square to do, but perhaps in a new IP.I'm sorry to say this, and I don't really mean any offense by this, but I feel your issue with the graphics is kind of some irrelvant personal OCD issue, cause most people I talk to about older RPGs and such don't seem to care, they just accept it and go on with their life.
As I said, Etrian Odyssey is a rather successful RPG series nowadays yet its mostly like this:
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So, I feel your argument of people not wanting to see 16-bit style graphics, and repetitive backgrounds is simply a sad attempt at trolling. I don't feel that people place as much priority onto graphics like some game developers and people do. Often times, I'm too busy fulfilling some task to care how much detail went into making the scenery. I want to get to the boss battle, I don't have time to look at the background and notice I've seen that same rock formation three times before.
SE has been making 16-bit titles, more often than modern games lately. The countless FFI/II ports, FFIV:TAY, FFLegends, FFIV PSP Collection, and Chrono Trigger DS. Even Disgaea is one of the better rated SRPGs on the market; and its style is mostly 2D sprites on a 3D background, with cutscenes using pictures with voice overs. So I simply can't agree that 2D doesn't sell and retro games won't sell. I'm surrounded by a generation of kids wearing T-Shirts that reference games that existed before they were even born. So I would say 16-bit is still hip.
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