The Returners

[demondude]

You're all smurfs and you let me die. Bandits ftw.

Edit: Thanks for nothing, Mankind. I Should have stayed with The Nation of Domination.

Maybe now you'll think twice about throwing a personally autographed copy of your partners autobiography in the trash.

There was only one way things could ever have gone between us after that. Returners forever!

We know how that "I Quit" match went at the Royal Rumble. Wanna try again, bitch?

[Rebellious Eagle]

Psh, DD, you tried to start your own party. Away from us. Your homeboys. :<

[demondude]

In my defense I don't actually remember doing it, and so I don't hold myself fully accountable. I was vulnerable and you guys turned on me.

[G13]

You make the greatest decisions when drunk.

[NorthernChaosGod]

You drunken slob.

[Carl the Llama]

In my defense I don't actually remember doing it, and so I don't hold myself fully accountable. I was vulnerable and you guys turned on me.

I wouldn't worry about it DD Warriors are going to win this anyways, you just ended your suffering quicker lol.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Ninja, please.

[Carl the Llama]

Dual Sword wielding Cloud and Mighty Summon monsters, Please.

[Edge7]

Dual wielding treasure hunter who can mug your ass twice in a row, cast a plethora of spells on you, and then rob you of your MP by casting Osmose just so he can do it to you all over again, please.

What now son? Warriors be wishin' they could customize that much without spending so many slots on "All" materia.

[Wolf Kanno]

Let's go with your titles if we're going to be nitpicky.

Final Fantasy VII - A 3D knockoff that heavily borrowed ideas from other games, mostly SoM, FFVI, and Chrono Trigger. If you owned an SNES, VII was mostly a "been there done that" experience, with some cool cutscenes and a heavy dose of anime. Hell, if you were watching what was popular in Japan at the time, it only adds to the "been there done that, got the T-Shirt" feel of the game. Its big plot twist is the main character is a whiny little bitch. trout, VI starts with a whiny bitch and it ends with her owning a big pair of brass balls

Legend of the Dragoon - Is frankly not that good, its got cheesy VA work, a combat system that is more frustrating than fun, a terrible plot.

Breath of Fire III and IV - I'll concede on this but I feel BoFII is underappreciated by the BoF community cause much like FFVII, most RPG fans in the BoF series started with the PS1 generation, so most didn't touch the game until they were set in their ways...

Command and Conquer - Heard of it and never bothered to play. Besides the game's plot is cheesy as hell, and it kept using those god awful live action cutscenes that were more laughable than cool.

Lunar SSSC - Originally a Sega CD game, then a port on the Sega Saturn, you can't claim a port. Its still a good game, but its a port with a facelift.

Grandia - Originally a Sega Saturn Game, see above... Also, while Grandia has a great battle system, it has a terrible story and a really cheesy cast, not to mention the god awful VA work.

3D Graphics. - That were mostly terribly. Even you have to admit, 3D didn't come into its own until the PS2 era, and Playstation wasn't even the first console to have 3D, once again, the Sega Saturn beat the Sony to the punch.

quoteWhich most of its sales are from us kids growing up in the awesome SNES era who finally entered the working force.

Well for a start I will address the "most of your sales are from us" part: Yes, I do concede that SOME of the sales did come from people who bought a SNES many moons ago but I forgot you people can't do math so let me explain it to you with little words: 102 - 49 = 53 so that means that if every single person who owned a SNES bought a Playstation that still means over half those sales were non SNES owning people (which still beats your measly 49.10 million sales) and besides even if every one of you SNES owners DID buy a Playstation, its obvious why: You guys recognise that the Playstation is THE superior console, a console who's sales can only be beaten by the Playstation 2 (which isn't really being beaten because the PS2 can still play PS1 games) so let me ask you this: where is the backwards compatibility for the SNES? oh right Nintendo are a bunch of money grabbing bastards and don't give a smurf if people's old games never get replayed again, unless its to make a port to their handheld consoles.

Nintendo - which has been around 11 years more then Sony - has stumped up sales of consoles on all 5 machines equals 251.77 million consoles sold world wide, PS1 and PS2 alone can beat that without the extra numbers the PS3 brings to the equation with world wide sales of 252.49 million with PS3 added to that it becomes 302.49 million consoles sold world wide, which lets face it, rapes the tit out of Nintendo's sales.

You're forgetting the Sega fans in this equations, who also make up part of the Sony demographic, and frankly, I feel many former Sega fanboys have turned to the mighty Sony to avenge their companies ruin. The other issue here is that it was because the Genesis/SNES era making games more acceptable to the public after the debacle of the Atari in the early 80s. Had the Playstation been released in the early 90s, it would have suffered the same fate as the Atari Jaguar and Sega CD, an expensive novelty item. I mean trout, the PS1's starting lineup was terrible, and they've even aged worse.

As for backwards compatibility, Yes, the N64 didn't have it, but faulting Nintendo now, for releasing old games through WiiWare or ports, which offer the ability to actually play them on the go, and was doing so several years later before Sony came up with their own version, is frankly silly, cause Nintendo moved to a new medium, its not like the Playstation can play cartridges.

Also, let's look at Sony's accomplishments, how about that robust online networking on the PS2? Oh, wait, it never happened outside of SOCOM, and after Squenix invested so much into launching it with FFXI. Let's talk about the fact, Sony doesn't even make PS3's with backwards compatibility, and while they are kind enough to sell you back your PS1 games to play on the systems hardware, you're still screwed for playing PS2 games, and even the PS3s that did have Backwards compatibility, have a pretty nasty habit of breaking down on that front. I own one of them, and I have to say my PS3 is only for PS3 games, cause it can't play the others worth trout. Even if you can get them running, the system can't play old memory cards (like the Wii can) so what's the point of backwards compatibility if its going to make you start from scratch. You're better off just buying a used PS1 or PS2 and spend the other $250 you would have saved by doing so, on the now super cheap games they have.

BC, was nice for one generation and then Sony screwed it up. Sure Nintendo ported old classics onto the GBs but that was a decade before Sony actually got around to getting the portable DL onto the PSP to work and even then, I feel the pickings are rather slim. I can play almost every classic on the DS, I still can't get BoF4 or Suikoden 2 on the PSN network. It took until this year for SE to get off their ass and finally release most of their library.

After that I have further damning evidence: Nintendo had the contract for FFVII but somehow they managed to smurf it up and so Squaresoft went over to the PS1 and the resulting game was the most epic game of the entire series.

This was simply about the choice of hardware technology. Nintendo wanted to keep cartridge based games but Square wanted more room to work with and left Nintendo for Sony. Interesting fact, Sakeguchi wanted to port FFIV-VI to the GBA back when the handheld released , but Nintendo refused, and only agreed to do it after Sakaguchi left SE.

This is easily one of the bigger blunders in gaming, but also having a poor excuse for defense for your customers personal data that allows any hacker who can breach your defenses get the whole bounty, doesn't seem like a great idea in hindsight either.

Sales of Final Fantasy VII has reached over 10 million copies sold worldwide with Final Fantasy VI barely reaching 3.48 million (including the re-release sold on... you guessed it THE PS1!!!!). When FFVII was released on PSN it sold 100,000 copies within 2 weeks making it the fastest selling PSN game ever released.

Actually, counting the sales from the FF Chronicles/Anthology versions of the games, VI has reached past 4 million, the collections are not usually counted in this number, nor has the downloaded versions or VI Advance, so the number is actually higher. The other thing to note is that VII was the first FF released worldwide, VI never reached the PAL regions until FFIX was released, by then it was old and charming, as opposed to be new. Also when you think about how VII is popular in PAL regions and part of that is because their only experience with FF was FFI and Mystic Quest, I can see how these poor people truly believed VII was good, when they can only compare it to utter crap and ancient relics.

Besides, VII is a shadow of its former self, SE is just going to milk you people with silly spin-offs and sequels, while dangling the carrot that is a remake in the distance, as if buying all this crap tells SE they need to make it, when all its really doing is telling them they can slap Cloud and Sephiroth onto a magical pony raising simulator and you people will lap it off the ground like it was gold.

I'll take my lesser success over one that is being run into the ground by a company that is bankrupt of imagination and ideas.

Now, lets go into those games you mentioned:

Final Fantasy VI
FFIV
Secret of Mana
Super Metroid
These here are admittedly good games, but they no where near match the calibre of the games released on the PS1.

I disagree. While the PS1 certainly has its number of games that are on the same caliber, I don't feel their are many if any that are better.

Star Fox
Castlevania IV
Super Star Wars Trilogy
Mortal Kombat
Street Fighter II
Donkey Kong Country
These games I have put a strike through because lets face it, they are lame games, Street Fighter II I might add has had considerably better instalments on the Playstation.

No, you just have lousy taste, DKC is a classic and actually one of the most financially successful franchises for Nintendo, which irritates Miyamoto. MK1 and 2 are the only popular entries in the MK franchise, and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo is still considered by the SF community as the definitive entry in the franchise and the best game. You'll still be seeing people playing them at tournaments as opposed to the SF:EX series, which most SF fans try to forget it exists and the Alpha series which died with SFA3. Hell the SNES actually got SFA1 and 2 and they are technically the better entries in terms of unlockables and cinematic elements. SFA3 just has a huge roster filled with Shoto clones and Cammy pallette swaps.

Star Fox is also a great game and the series would be better if Nintendo stopped trying to make them into space epics. It is actually one of the best dog fighting experience on the old consoles. The Super Star Wars series is a fun side scrolling adventure, and until recently, was considered one of the few Star Wars games to escape the Gundam curse, by actually being playable.

Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (which every Zelda has been based on since)
Your basically admitting that if you have played one of these games, then you have played all of them, lets face it: it's pathetic never changing story same Zelda same Link each game is released with the same story over and over again each with a a little twist on the gameplay element of the game.

Yeah, just like Halo, RE, Silent Hill, and DQ and several other gaming franchises. When a franchise starts getting past the 10 year mark, you either stick to the formula or gamble on a revamp. The Zelda games do play differently, but its is also very formulaic. Its like going into a Silent Hill game and already knowing combat is going to be terribly to keep up the drama. They could fix it but then you get what happened to the RE series which has mostly split the fanbase.

Zelda always offers a new take on everything. Twilight Princess certainly found new and unique ways to use the metal boots accessory which was really remarkable. Overall, I feel your argument is just irrelevant cause most games don't dramatically alter the formula that made them successful, even SE tends to get reamed (VIII and XIII) when they alter the formula too much. This is just the usual argument Nintendo Haters make to talk smack about Nintendo franchises, without realizing their caught in a hypocrisy itself. LttP created the franchises formula, OoT introduced 3D elements (which actually created a different gaming experience as opposed to FFVII which still plays like a 16-bit game) and Z-Targeting, Wind Waker introduced a re-emphasis on exploration and gave Link the ability to disarm and pick up enemy weapons for unique combat, and Twilight Princess created more ways to utilize several of the old time fave items and unique dungeons like the Abominable Snowman mansion. Each game is unique from each other.

I feel Mega Man has more issues with being formulaic than Zelda does, trout how could I forget MMX!? Another great series on the SNES and one that actually began to shake up the MM formula, with a darker story, wall climbing, and collecting armor and health items.

Lost Vikings
I have never even heard of this game, which goes to show how "popular" it is.

It was a cool 2D side scroller where you played 3 dwarves, each with a unique ability that allowed you to get past certain puzzles, its biggest notoriety was being one of the first titles for a future big company. If, you've played WoW you've probably met them.

Lufia II
An average game imo, I played and enjoyed it, but it doesn't stick in my mind as being an epic game.

To each their own I guess

Breath of Fire II
While Breath of Fire II was an awesome game, Breath of Fire III and IV are much better games, which is evidenced by Wolf Kanno's Breath of Fire Appreciation thread.

II is underappreciated if you ask me. I feel its the first really good BoF, and like many SNES titles that found future installments on the PSX, I felt it layed the groundwork for those games, the Fairy Colony, Master System, and mulitple endings, can all can be traced back to BoF2 and its unique systems. Besides, BoF2 has an epic final conflict which begins with the Big Bad murdering your whole party except your hero, and its the only entry in the series that has three endings

Chrono Trigger
The SNES landmark RPG title, indeed an awesome game but 1 game alone cannot stand up to the might of the Playstation.

I beg to differ, especially since the PSX could only muster up a semi-good sequel that is only a good game on its own merits. Besides, CT has had the remake spiel even longer than VII has.

[NorthernChaosGod]

And that's a mothersmurfing homerun.

[G13]

If only your big, fancy arguments could save you now. What a pity.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Please, you dead.

[Wolf Kanno]

If only your big, fancy arguments could save you now. What a pity.

Dude, I will sic a demon on your eternal ass. Go back to the Farplane, the most poorly contrived afterlife in the FF series, and this is coming from a guy supporting a game where the dead are ferried on a train that can be suplexed by a moron.

Don't make me go Yasunori Kato on your ass.

[G13]

You misunderstand.

You're smurfing dead.