Asking for medical/diet advice on a Final Fantasy message board = no bueno
Asking for medical/diet advice on a Final Fantasy message board = no bueno
Originally Posted by Peegee
I learned PG doesn't actually want to be a Pokemon master.
lulz
And he'd be wrong not to put too fine a point on it. No causal link has ever been proven between diets high in fat and protein and low in carbs and a higher incidence of heart disease. Normally I wouldn't link to a Men's Health article as my first piece of evidence, but this is one of the few articles I've seen them do that was not only well researched, but seemed to critically look at the data available: Saturated Fat | Men's Health
I also happen to be at my parents and only have a bit of time to track down some of the evidence that's out there without access to my usually bookmarked sources. Perhaps one of the more telling facts is that Ancel Keys, essentially the person who started to raise the alarm regarding high fat diets fudged his data to get there. Most observational studies since haven't done much better.
Another more recent article that is none the less quite interesting is here: Super-sticky 'ultra-bad' cholesterol revealed in people at high risk of heart disease
You can also find an interesting breakdown of what the implications of these findings are here: Fat Head » ‘Super-Sticky’ Cholesterol and Diabetics
Essentially it discusses a fairly recently discovered type of cholesterol which is essentially extra sticky, causing it to more readily stick to the walls of arteries. This type of cholesterol is created through a process called glycation where sugar groups are added to normal LDL. This process happens within the body, and happens more readily with fructose and galactase than glucose. The important take away though is that this stuff isn't something you ingest when you eat meat. It's something created in the body from sugar in the blood.
And intuitively, the idea that animal fat is going to make you die of heart disease doesn't make much sense on a number of levels. There's the evolutionary argument for starters. For the better part of 2 million years worth of human evolution our diets consisted largely of meat and animal fat. We may have eaten some plants that we could scavenge here and there, but until the advent of farming, we didn't have access to large quantities of fruit, vegetables, or grains, and for the most part, there aren't a lot of plants we can eat. We certainly can't eat the sorts of grasses that are plentiful in many parts of the world, particularly Africa, but we can certainly eat lot's of things that can digest that stuff. There's also the fact that fat, saturated and otherwise, are essential for proper brain development.
And heart disease hasn't shown to be a major problem among those who lived long enough to develop it in cultures which still, or until recently, lived on diets high in meat and fat. It often doesn't start to become an issue until they're introduced to more modern foods and farming techniques.
Until the advent of agriculture and ways to process wheat and other grains into a form we could actually ingest somewhat safely, we didn't eat grains at all. And we've only been eating them for about the last 10,000 years or so. So for well over 1 million years we were adapting to eat a diet that consisted largely of meat, not carbs. Then we started eating foods so high in carbs compared to anything we were used to foraging for that the only way our bodies can deal with such a large spike in blood glucose (because we don't burn that much very quickly) was to release more insulin and store it. Which might not seem so bad if you're not used to even knowing when or where you'll find your next meal, but in the long run is pretty bad for your health because there was no precedent for eating diets that high in carbs consistently before. It never happened. No wonder people started getting fat and sick.
There's a reason people became interested in Atkins and low carb diets. It's because they actually work and lead to people losing weight and feeling healthier. I mean, we've been hearing the virtues of low fat, high carb diets for more than 50 years at this point. But not only have the benefits of said diets never been proven, heart disease, obesity and diabetes are problems which are still growing. If simply cutting back on fat worked, even given the number of people who apparently don't give a crap about how they eat and are liable to end up on biggest loser, shouldn't there have been some reduction? Because people have been hearing about this stuff long enough that I think most people at least try to cut back on fat.I think I've seen research supporting both sides in this "whole grain" issue, but personally, I think a lot of the "carbs are bad for you" craze happened because of everyone jumping on the Atkins bandwagon.
I agree that people should have carbs in moderation, and should be focused largely on vegetables and some fruit. The thing is, even legitimate whole grains from what I've seen still have a rather high GI and spike blood sugar to a level that is far too high. Most people just don't react to them well. Some of the most interesting benefits I've heard about from cutting out grains is actually with diabetics. I've seen quite a few talk online about how they're better able to manage their diabetes, and in some cases even get off of medications completely by cutting out grains and eating high protein, high fat diets.I also want to be clear that I'm not talking about the products you buy at the store that has 1% whole grain...and mostly a whole bunch of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, processed <insert grain="">*insert grain here*, and a whole bunch of additives and preservatives. And I'm also not supporting a high-carb diet. I believe in everything in moderation...that's why high-carb/no-carb whatever diets aren't good for you. I typically believe that eating carbs low in the glycemic index are good for you since they don't cause that huge sugar spike you mentioned.</insert>
I'm going to take some time to read the links you posted, but in the meantime, isn't it odd that Dr. Atkins himself (who followed his own diet) had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure, hypertension and weighed 258 pounds at death? I believe his BMI would be qualified as obese. And while there are doctors that support the Atkins diet, there's a reason there are so many doctors against it as well. Many diet plans out there are just all marketing and people trying to make a quick buck. Just What Killed the Diet Doctor, And What Keeps the Issue Alive? - NYTimes.com
And again, I don't think a HIGH carb diet is good for you, and I think that's what your emphasizing. But I don't think a NO carb diet is good for you either. I think if you're going to eat carbs, you should focus more on complex carbs and cut out simple carbs. I also think people need to be eating more good fats. I use olive oil in everything, eat tons of fish, and I'll admit I love whole milk, steak, eggs, salami, prosciutto, bacon...all that fatty goodness. My diet typically consists of more protein and good fats, veggies (and I'm trying to eat more fruit), and a SMALL portion whole grains.
And you mentioned that it isn't until recently that we've had these problems because of our modern farming methods. What about the introduction of processed foods into our modern diet? Packaged, processed, and refined foods are what I've attributed to this country's obesity problem. Overeating as well as high-fat, high-calorie, high-sodium and high-sugar fast food and soda meals seem more likely to be the problem than a few slices of whole grain bread.
EDIT: So I skimmed through your articles (we have friends coming over to play board games so I'll try to read through them thoroughly later), and I want to emphasize that I don't think people need to cut down on fats. I completely agree that most people need more fats in their diet.
I also think it's important to distinguish between simple and complex carbs. For a typical person who doesn't have diabetes, I think they could very well stop consuming simple carbs for the better, but continue eating complex carbs like legumes, starchy vegetables like potatoes and corn, rice and grain products. You need to get your fiber somehow! Simple carbs are those that require little digestion and are a quick energy source. Candy, table sugar, sweetened soft drinks, etc. are examples of these simple sugar sources that provide calories but no nutrients. These are the carbs that I feel have no place in a well balanced diet.
http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/fw/fwNut03Carbs.htmlComplex carbs are more nutritious than refined grains, since they retain the bran and the germ, which are rich in vitamins, minerals, fiber, and beneficial phytochemicals. Whole grains are digested more slowly, and thus have a more modest effect on blood sugar than refined carbs or sugars.
The glycemic index has little practical use, however. You shouldn't try to build your diet around it, as some well-known diet doctors (including Dr. Atkins) advise. The main problem: it deals with single foods eaten by themselves. Potatoes may be high on the index, but when eaten as part of a meal, they have much less of an effect on blood sugar. There is no reason to avoid foods high on the glycemic index—many are very nutritious. Even people predisposed to diabetes, or with the disease, can eat these foods in moderation.
Last edited by AngelWings8; 07-23-2011 at 08:41 PM.
Fasting will only benefit in making you feel worse in the long run as previously mentioned. Try re-reading the post of the man who insulted you, it has basically all the information you would need ironically. If you want to leave because of such a stupid reason then by all means do what you want but at least think about the action and don't do it on pure impulse. You may regret the consequences.
Eyyyyyyyyyyyyy
We get a newbie who actually likes me and you run her out. Damn you.issed:
I like you :kaohappy2 Well...except for the fact that you killed me in Dwarf Fortress. It's gonna take me some time to forgive you for that :kaoangry:
Based on how easy it was to critically butthurt her, I think Quin did you a favor.
I'm fasting right now! But I think I shall break my fast as soon as I can be arsed to get out of bed.
I just broke my fast with a burrito.
I dunno. I ate mcdonald's yesterday before partying on a boat (I'M ON A BOAT) and today I had about 1500 calories in one sitting because it was a birthday dinner - most of it was meat though. I expect to maintain the same weight and post something in facebook about how it's so impossible to gain weight waaaaah
but then I actually exercise, so that might have something to do with things.
Ew, who merged EoEO with General Chat? Go away you tl;dr calorie counters.
Go away, fatty.
Weird, I said the exact same thing to your mother after I was done with her last night.
All this healthy living stuff got me doing some exercise. I just came back from a run and the only change is that I feel I have betrayed myself.
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