Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post

I never forget anything about Final Fantasy so don't write that all the time. There is no proof that it was because the party "reduced his Hit Points". X-Death is just the next generation of Enuo and Enuo was also able to control nothingness for some time but then was controlled by nothingness itself.
I'm just saying, you battle him and it's only in the course of this battle that he was finally consumed by the Void itself. Before that he was kicking ass and taking names with it. I felt that having him as an actual battle before Neo-Exdeath appears is a bit more meaningful considering FFIV used two scripted boss battles before finally squaring off Zeromus. Considering Exdeath isn't killed by the Void but instead transformed into a new being, should also be a testament to his power.

It is stated that Enuo was defeated by the chosen warriors wielding the 12 sealed weapons and that he lost control of the Void and was consumed by it, it never said he was taken over by it like Exdeath. It simply states he is gone. Whether him appearing as an optional boss in V Advance can even be considered canon is debatable.

And X-Death simply has no great will. Will power is almost always in Final Fantasy one of the most important facts when it comes to "how to control the strength I want to control". And Sephiroth is written to have the greatest will of all. His will cannot be dominated, that's why he can control JENOVA and that's why he can resist the planet and that's why X-Death cannot beat him in terms of comparing will power.
First off, Exdeath mind controls four different people while he is sealed away, just so he have them shatter the remaining three crystals, like I said, he's mentally strong enough to control the Void for a certain amount of time and considering the entire FF mythos, the Void is on par with an ultimate force.I would say he shows a great power of will.

Secondly, you are using a quote by Kitase out of context. Sephiroth has the greatest will in VII not the series. So it is debatable if he could control something like the Void. Also, Kitase really can't speak for the whole series.

Secondly, Sephy's mental powers have been thrown off twice by Cloud, once when he resisted him when he tried to make him kill Aerith and the second time was in the game's climatic final battle, when Cloud finally overcame his influence. So he can be dominated even in his post-god mode. Hell the Lifestream Novella Black chapter even says the Lifestream does take part of him.

And X-Death or Enuo are not the void's creator. The void existed in the nature of Final Fantasy V before Enuo and X-Death, was filled with the four elements and after Enuo released the void's power and was controlled by it the void was sealed in the Cleft of Dimensions. But there is no one who has created it than "nature" itself.
My mistake, I forgot that the ending mentioned the Void existed before. My bad. :sweatdrop:

If you really want to compare X-Death's will power then we can take Zemus. Both were sealed away but still able to use their abilities partly. And yet X-Death aimed to get a power greater than the one Zemus controlled, the void's power which simply needed to control him since the story of Final Fantasy V should repeat. Both Enuo and X-Death traded their immortality (X-Death was at least very hard to kill, no one was sure if he really was immortal, but Enuo was) against the power of the void. But just because I have a Driver's License it doesn't mean I cannot lose control over the car.
Except that whole statement doesn't prove anything. Both control people while sealed away, so its comparable but that's it. Exdeath doesn't trade anything to control the Void, he just literally has to destroy the crystals to do so. Yet it should be noted that both Exdeath and Enuo are considered to be the most powerful beings in the FFV mythos and frankly, the game even implies Exdeath is probably greater than Enuo himself.

You're basically implying anyone can control the Void which the game pretty much just doesn't support. I mean countless demons are sealed in the Rift with the Void, but none of them are trying to wield it, and most of them actually follow Exdeath because he can. A better analogy would be a jet fighter, not a car.


X-Death does not erase existence with the void. The void is paradox. It still is a place, even though it should be no place. Just a place were nothing exists. Until something is inside it. Technically there should be no void then of course. But this is the paradox part. Also the part that in void no time and space exists. But Bartz and the others were able to live and were not frozen when X-Death locked them inside their Almagest. This is a difficult topic because they are natural things were story tellers write what they want.

The void itself really wanted to end everything in the end. But letting things vanish inside the void is not the same as erasing their existence.
You forget that all four of them have the power of the crystals within them, which can explain why they still exist within the Void, and why everything gets fixed in the end because they allow the crystals to be reborn. While I can certainly agree the Void is a bit of paradox with little explanation, I would argue that the fact people who wield it say they can educe things to nothingness with it would be a safe implication that it can do so. As I stated, its not like the party doesn' have their own Deus Ex Machina to allow them to do the impossible.

The natural power "chaos" is as great as the void. The void is just the balanced version of chaos. And if Chaos, the "God of Distortion", really shall be the embodiement of Chaos he is stronger than X-Death - I mean X-Death without the power of the void, of course.
Meh, its all a retcon by a team that has only played the original. No one from the original development team of FFI was part of Dissidia and the game is a giant fan service title, I don't think I would take it's Chaos to be the same as Chaos of FFI even though they are meant to be. Even then, Shinryu itself is still shown to be the true god-like being pulling all the strings of Dissidia, considering he is resurrecting people on a large scale, including Chaos, I would say the Dragon has more sway.

Then what about the official statement that Sephiroth is the being with the greatest and strongest will of all,
Made by Kitase in context of FFVII alone, not the series. Also, its a statement by a guy who can't really speak for the whole series. Hell, no one really can at this point.

the fact that Sephiroth blocks Aerith's magic and the fact that Sephiroth overpowers the collective consciousness "Lifestream"?
Only while he's alive, after his defeat, he is only able to hold onto his sense of self by thinking about how much he hates Cloud. He's lost his memories and other elements of his mind. The Ultimania says he can't even materialize as a spirit cause he can't even remember who he looks like. So while it's impressive he can hold onto his sense of self and even work within the Lifestream (thanks mostly to Jenova's immortal cells) its shown he isn't all powerful. Technically, once Cloud's generation passes, Sephiroth can never truly resurrect, because no one will remember who he is and chances are he Lifestream may overcome him in time since he had to sacrifice so much to remain after the first time.

Meanwhile, Exdeath sinks an island, creates an impenetrable barrier that covers a large chunk of a continent, and teleport to different planets with just his basic powers. He doesn't even have the Void at this time. The guy literally begins in his game where Sephy ends in his, and Exdeath just gets stronger from there.

He didn't overpower them because "they had JENOVA cells". He overpowered them because it is in his character script that he is the strongest of all and can only be defeated by teamwork or underestimating Cloud so Cloud could unleash his Hero Bonus factor.
Except they all do, Cloud is controlled because he can't handle the Jenova cells, he can only manipulate the people with Geostigma and create his "Dark Lifestream" because Geostigma is simply people infected with small traces of Jenova Cells released by the Lifestream during Meteor Fall, and they themselves weaken their consciousness by weakening their bodies. He overpowers Jenova but god knows what Jenova's consciousness is even like, it could just be animalistic for all we know, and Kadaj and his gang are literally parts of Sephy's conscious given material form. He never once mentally overpowers any individual without Jenova cells being part of the equation.

The Lifestream itself is also never said to have a concentrated conscious will that can be overpowerded, it is simply a "sea of consciousness" that overwhelms a normal mind, and causes Mako poisoning. It is shown with Aerith, that all it may take to control the Lifestream is simply a mind strong enough to maintain a sense of self. The Lifestream itself may actually be mostly directionless and it needs a strong consciousness like Sephy, Aerith, and Gaia to actually give it any direction. Sephy himself never even really shows much control over the Lifestream, he absorbs its power and knowledge instead of being consumed by it after the Nibelheim incident, and then uses its power to fuel the summoning of Meteor, but its never shown him "bending the Lifestream to his will".

Also, bringing up Sephy's cockiness just shows he would lose, because he would toy with Exdeath and Exdeath would just use the Void to swallow him. He wouldn't know what hit him, just like Omnislash Version. 5


No, it is simply not and there is nothing more to say about that. JENOVA and Sephiroth both can intrude the mind of other beings. Iphalna says that to Gast.
Ilfana only says Jenova can read minds to change its shape, she never said she mind controlled them. Jenova drove them insane after infecting them with a virus. Once again, I point out that Sephiroth never mind controls anyone, in the course of several games and a feature film, who doesn't have Jenova's cells within them.

And only because Sephiroth's pure will power which doesn't have anything to do with physical influence of JENOVA's cells was stronger than the lifestream he was able to get even more stronger. The Ultimania itself talks about Sephiroth's will power and Case of Black as well.
I can't really argue this, but I would point out Case of Black shows his consciousness is degrading. Of anything, Sephiroth simply has become like Zeromus by Advent Children. A single minded entity, who only regains his sense of true self because of Cloud's memories and Jenova's cells. But this doesn't prove his will is stronger than any other FF villain, it just shows how utterly impressive it is within the VII mythos. As I said, I feel Mateus and Zemus pretty much show off similar levels of mental badass, in their respective games.

Geostigma, et cetera are just some of many ways for Sephiroth to harm the planet and link his existence to others and to continue the story. But it doesn't change the fact that Sephiroth has the strongest will of all and that this would have been the reason why he would have successfully absorbed the whole lifestream when Meteor almost killed the planet.
Except your taking a line from a VII Ultimania out of context as a means of evidence to apply to the whole franchise, to prove your point and I'm telling you, Kitase was speaking about VII, not FF in general. Now I'm pretty sure Kitase may actually believe Sephy is the biggest badass in the whole series, but its not like he has not stated VII is his "all time favorite game ever!" but that seriously doesn't mean his word somehow trumps the other dozen writers and creators in the FF franchise. As I've said before, Sakaguchi could make a statement that Gilgamesh is the strongest being in the FF franchise, but it really wouldn't mean it's canon either to most fans.

I don't write these things because I love Sephiroth, because I love X-Death, Kefka and Kuja as well. But I write about all of them what they can.
I am being really serious, when I say I don't mean to offend you here, but I thought of this when you made this statement. I mean you have Sephiroth as your avatar name and he's in your sig.

And of course I mention the scenes or the Ultimania lines or whatever. So please don't think that I would forget anything. Because Final Fantasy is my daily main topic and about Sephiroth: Sephiroth was made from the beginning as the "super-cool, everyone has to like him because of his look, his power which cannot be surpassed and the things he does"-character. So it is not like I would write garbage here. Sephiroth is intended to be that powerful. The being, more powerful than a collective conciousness full of all life and of the lifeforms which were able to seal his mother away. Aerith even has problems to "clean" the lifestream because Sephiroth is too strong and darkens the lifestream without any problems. And every being, not only Sephiroth which is able to resist the lifestream at least somehow can use at least some of the knowledge inside of it to become stronger. Same for Aerith and Zack is also mentioned in the Ultimania when it comes to will power. And Sephiroth is meant to be the one who is able to resist everything and what Sephiroth resists can be used by him. That is part of his power which becomes even greater then. I would never call characters like Emperor Mateus or X-Death "weak" because the are not. But Sephiroth's whole strength and about how he gets stronger is based on his will power.

But of course you can think what you want. However then no discussion is needed.
Listen, I understand your sencerity here and I am not going to accuse you of trying to fanboy this whole thing. I even agree with you that Sephy was designed to be the "uber cool super badass ulitmate evil" here, but I feel your basing your own argument on an arbitray line made by one of the development team to state his opinion about Sephiroth in the context of his own game's mythos. Once you knock that out, he has to stand on his own merits within his game, which are impressive, but I feel the other FF villains are equally impressive if not more so with some of their own actions and abilities. Sephy has an impressive willpower, but so do other villains, and the real issue here, is that we can't say for sure how easily it is for the Void to overpower someone. Sephy may just end up like Exdeath if he were to try to take the Void for himself. All we know is that the Void is often times considered to be the ultimate contrasting force to the crystals and life, meaning its a pretty big deal. My feeling is that the fact Exdeath could even control it for as long as he did is pretty damn impressive feat among all the villains.