The Lunarians: Great Plot Twist, or Ultimate Cheese?

[Wolf Kanno]

Well... looking at the Character/World guide for FFIV, most of the nations in FFIV are relatively young. Baron is the oldest and it's roughly 500 years old. Mysidia was started around the same time by someone named Mihn on a fishing boat he captained, what is interesting to note about Mysidia's timeline is that Mihn is still active in Mysidia (now a Sage) 300 years after the founding of Mysidia, when Mihn gets angry at the humans misuse of magic and seals it along with Mt. Ordeals. Later "Mihn's Voice" would reawaken magic to help save Mysidia fifty years later, and afterwards, his voice will teach mages how to break some of the magic seals he placed on magic.

Now, Mihn could simply be two figures, the founder and then generations later a powerful Sage named after the village founder, or they could be the same person and possibly a Lunarian. I think the most likely evidence might be that Mihn is a captain of a ship that lands off the coast of where Mysidia was after a storm. Yet, Mysidia is also the location of the Lunar Whale. It's possible that Mihn was a Lunarian that first came to the Blue Planet before Kluya, it's not like Fusoya said that Kluya was the lone Lunarian to travel to the Blue Planet, and I'm sure it took a whole group of them to build Bab-il Tower, Kluya just might have been the last to visit the Planet to help spur humanity's evolution. Mihn also sealed all magic in the world, so it's possible that Kluya is simply just helping humans relearn magic by unsealing Mihn's seals. So if Mihn is the same person, it's likely Lunarian's have long lifespans, but its also possible that they have regular lifespans and its the Lunarians have just been taking turns on the Blue Planet between sleeping to help humans along. Course Fusoya doesn't have a confirmed age in the series...

[Roogle]

My problem is that none of this information is in the game. The After Years complicates things further by implying that Kluya is (SPOILER)some sort of keeper of holiness as Kain hears his voice when being presented with the trial to become a Holy Dragoon.

[Wolf Kanno]

I can understand not caring for the info cause its not in the game, but I don't think the Kluya thing is an issue. He simply bestowed part of his power to Kain. As for the extra info, I feel it doesn't conflict with anything from the game and really fleshes out some characters so I don't mind. It certainly makes the world more interesting.

[VeloZer0]

Too bad there wasn't some sort of data-log to be able to include all of that in the game.

Later "Mihn's Voice" would reawaken magic to help save Mysidia fifty years later, and afterwards, his voice will teach mages how to break some of the magic seals he placed on magic.

Maybe the re-awakening of magic is what spurred Kluya into coming down to the planet to check how things were going.

Yet, Mysidia is also the location of the Lunar Whale.

According to FF wiki Kluya built the Lunar Whale, so it hasn't been sitting there all that long.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah, but how old is Kluya?

Also, a little digging uncovered that Mihn might actually be meant to be read as Minwu, making this the fourth FFII reference in the game, and it coincides with the Dark Knight Leonheart who left the Death Bringer at Fabul.

Also, you have a bit of a datalog, I've posted links to the FFIV character guide translations in this forum.

[MJN SEIFER]

The Orphanage thing isn't as silly as people say it is. I have articles on in the works, but even with the GF thing, it's not that implausable that people would forget people from their past. The hints are actually good but work best in hindsight which I like better.

[Slothy]

but even with the GF thing, it's not that implausable that people would forget people from their past.

People you don't know that well sure, but kids your own age that you not only see and play with everyday, but actually live with? Hell, I still remember a lot of names and faces of kids I went to Elementary school with and I'm almost ten years older now than any of the main characters in FFVIII are supposed to be.

[MJN SEIFER]

but even with the GF thing, it's not that implausable that people would forget people from their past.

People you don't know that well sure, but kids your own age that you not only see and play with everyday, but actually live with? Hell, I still remember a lot of names and faces of kids I went to Elementary school with and I'm almost ten years older now than any of the main characters in FFVIII are supposed to be.

But most of them stopped seeing eachother, after certain age. And don't forget most of them still remembered eachother just not completly. Squall and Seifer still remembered eachother deep down, which is why they were enemies - they just didn't know why they hated each other so much, Squall recognised Edea's name but didn't know where. Etc.

Also what did you think of Cloud's memories being corrupted? Because the thing with the GFs making Squall and friends forget is pretty much the same, just done differently.

[Wolf Kanno]

The issue with the Orphanage twist for me is that it doesn't go anywhere, it just creates a new dynamic with Edea, but it really doesn't add anything to the characters; and the whole GF memory wipe elements in the plot is never spoken of again outside of one diary entry by Selphie, and one comment by Squall. It's just kind of there to be a twist that never goes anywhere. It would have been more interesting to get more scenes where the party reminisces to each other at later points or try to rectify long ago feelings like Irvine's crush on a clueless Selphie, or they could have really shaken things up and have more interesting dynamics change like what if Seifer and Zell were best friends and Quistis and Squall were close as kids but now are different due to the GF memory wipe wiping out those memories? It's just never mentioned again after this event in any meaningful way. Cloud's twist is integral to his character, but I don't feel the same can be said of Squall and Co. The plot-twist could be dropped from the story, with an alternate explanation about Edea's identity, and it really wouldn't have wrecked any major dynamics in the game. That's my issue with it, its just a twist for the sake of atwist ultimately and it didn't have any real impact on the plot.

[MJN SEIFER]

Actually it does go somewhere - it helps make the Squall Rinoa paring move forward, and helps Squall open up. The orphanage revelation is to help Squall open up and realize that he's not as alone as he thought - which is one of the key elements of his character (and no, he's not emo - he's just always felt alone because of what happened in his life). The orphanage thing is actually may favorite revelation because I've always related to Squall's character. I have articles planned on this.

[Wolf Kanno]

See I don't agree, because Squall doesn't make any real reference to it after its revealed. It doesn't help that Squall was a loner at the orphanage itself, so I don't believe it helped him get out of his shell as much as Rinoa and the actual journey of VIII did for him. I also don't agree with it helping him get closer to Rinoa, because she has nothing to do with it and Squall realizing he's been lonely for his sister (which he always remembered) but growing up with all these other kids he didn't want to be around helped him, doesn't seem like something that would change his mind about Rinoa who is new to his life. Squall hasn't changed since he was little, and I don't see how that revelation would change his mind. He doesn't actually start to really come out of his shell until he has to step up as the commander of the SeeDs during the Garden Battle, during which he comes to his realization that he actually does care about Rinoa and even that gets hinted at if you choose to not take Rinoa with you to Balamb when the party splits at the start of Disc 2. I see no evidence in the game to show that this plot-twist had anymore of a profound effect on Squall beyond diminishing his resolve to fight Matron. His relationship with the party didn't really improve, I'm mean Squall's true growth out of his shell doesn't really begin to take a dramatic effect until Disc 3 when he's trying to save Rinoa and that is long past the orphanage twist, and it's like I said, never mentioned by Squall or the others again, so I can't agree its the defining moment or even an important moment for Squall's character development. The player is simply made privy to the context of all the "Charlie Brown Childhood Squall" scenes.

To bring this back to FFIV, the revelation that Golbez and Cecil are brothers, has a more profound effect on Cecil's character than Squall and the Orphanage twist. Despite this plot twist being a Star Wars/FFII knockoff, it forces Cecil and the player to come to terms with the fact Cecil has been fighting his brother who was not completely under his own control. It also brings up the internal conflict within Cecil, on whether he can forgive his brother for all the horrible things he has done over the course of the game, which is beautifully if rather simply done with the dialogue between the revelation up until the start of the ending. The final climatic moment in IV, is not the Zeromus battle, but Cecil finally calling Golbez "brother" and forgiving him. Squall never has this kind of resolution with the orphanage, mainly because he's the one least effected by it, and technically, I don't feel the game does a good job addressing this as relevant to the other characters either. They may have gained a bit more sense of camaraderie, but that was already there to begin with after the group was dealing with their first missions, first failure and all the events of the first and second disc. They were all pretty chummy before the twist was revealed. So I don't feel it has any real impact.

[MJN SEIFER]

Note: I'm not going to in full detail because I'm hanging out at Synchtube at the moment, but I will do this better when I can plus it's in my articles (remember I am currently doing several projects), but I mean Squall's attitude changed, he became more open after that scene. The thing with Rinoa was part of it because he was able to open up. It's not mentioned because it doesn't need to be, or more precise it is mentioned, but not in six feet lettering. Trust me, I'll reiterate this with a more professional response, trust me on this one. This is where using a cheat device pays off (not that I do that anymore).

[Wolf Kanno]

I look forward to your response. Perhaps it would be better to make a thread in the VIII forum though, cause we don't need to derail this topic anymore. This is about FFIV and them silly aliens from the moon!

[MJN SEIFER]

I look forward to your response. Perhaps it would be better to make a thread in the VIII forum though, cause we don't need to derail this topic anymore. This is about FFIV and them silly aliens from the moon!

Yeah, I'll post the main FFVIII article there, but there's a bigger thing in general which will cover this slightly.

[Sephex]

I like it, and as mentioned already in this thread, I feel like the twist was subtly hinted at. They could have built it up a bit more, but I am happy with the way it turned out.