Mafia XXI History Edition Game Thread Day 1: 21st Century Beatdown

[[M] Jeff - Single Dad]

Elizabeth, you can be scum whether you are busy or not. The important thing is to listen to other's theories and poke holes in them whenever you can.

[[M] Jeff - Single Dad]

Weak theories mean the theories need examination, or the theorist needs examination. Saladin, I do not think you have time to withhold your thoughts and play a silent role.

[[M] Walter - Smart Dad]

Elizabeth I would like take issue with a number of points you have made.

Firstly, I would very much appreciate it if in this mafia game and all other future mafia games, people stop using the logic of "Person Y did X and they were scum, so all people who do Y are scum." It's faulty logic. I can provide you with countless examples of someone being a driving force in the town who turned out to be town. I can also provide you with examples of scum members saying "In mafia game ABC, Joe the Dude did this and he is mafia". We have played a lot of mafia games now, it is likely that people of both affiliations have taken a variety of different actions, and you can use it to justify whatever you want. It is not constructive and I will hope any long time EoFF mafia players will agree with me on this one.

First off, I really don't think that was what she was getting at, she makes an interesting point that Alex was saying your not acting scummy because you were a driving force in the game, kind of ironic that you twist her words to get the finger pointed away from you when you claim she did the same, the Mao = Guilty = You = Guilty was just one of the points that she made, Alex said you weren't doing anything suspicious and it seems both Lizzy and myself disagree, pointing fingers at alot of people is in your opinion a good way to play the game, I do not agree.

Secondly, I did not say Gandhi was suspicious. I said he was on my radar because I wanted further clarification on his vote for me. You will note that once he did so I did not pursue the matter further. I feel that you have twisted my words to suit your agenda and I am not grateful for this misrepresentation. I would like to note that Tokagawa also voted for me and I did not question him; you should note I questioned the why, not the what. However, supposing I had accused Gandhi. Are you saying that I cannot question or accuse anyone of being suspicious if they vote for me? Using your logic, a mafia member should vote for every single other player in the game and be above suspicion. I am sorry but I am going to question anyone who has acted suspiciously regardless if they have voted for me, and if that makes me suspicious to you then so be it, but I would have little time for any opinion based on this.

You ask him to clarify this, then the next day you vote for him, how is that twisting your words, you can call it whatever you like but the fact remains that you voted for him the day after he voted for you, now seeing that you have been pointing your finger at alot of people I would think that was a scummy tactic, whether or not your agree is inconsequential, its my way of thinking. Having little time for it to me that says your trying to get others to come around to your way of thinking, trying to discard the fact.

I also believe that pointing the finger at more than one person is a good tactic, and not a suspicious one. I would be more suspicious or perhaps, exasperated, at players who only concentrate on one player. Remember that, in all likelihood, there is more than one member of the mafia. Naturally it makes sense to therefore look at more than one person if you want to contribute to the town's success. I feel that to accuse someone of suspicion because of this is inherently flawed.

As for my suspicions I think Cat is acting pretty scummy, Hard questioning of Mao, it could be a Mafia ploy, having a Mafia sacrifice themselves by acting stupid would have vindicated Cat by her in most peoples eyes

You will also notice how Ghandi voted for Cat yesterday and today Cat find's him suspicious, acting very scummy indeed, now, some people might say I'm acting scum like for casting my vote now then possibly not showing up again for the rest of the game, but if I get lynched then w/e that would prove my innocence and therefor have the finger firmly pointed at Cat, who I think could very well be scum

So let me clarify this. You put forward the theory that Mao was mafia and I was also mafia, sacrificing Mao would vindicate me. Therefore mafia voting for mafia team mates to vindicate themselves is a tactic they use. And now Mao has flipped town. Now what? And yet you - let's suppose you are right and you are indeed confirmed town - voting for me somehow proves I'm scum? I don't think this makes much sense. Are you saying town members only vote for the mafia and because a confirmed town votes for someone we should use that as a damning indictment? I honestly do not understand where you are coming from here.

I would like you to consider these points I have made. I would also like Simon who seemingly agrees with you to do the same. Thank you for your time.

Why should it matter if Lizzy or I go after one person at a time? the whole point of saying if I (or lizzy as the case is now) get hung and she (or I) flip innocent then that would add weight to our apparent shared beliefs that you could possibly be scum, if I am to win (with town) I can't afford to spend my time pointing my finger at every single person I think is suspicious, I need to get on the trail of the Mafia and get them hung, words are my only friend right now, I can only vote for women, and I am not Mafia so I can't afford to spend my time going after multiple people, one step at a time ya know, I go for people who I think are guilty and if I am wrong then I apologise, but I am not going to change my beliefs.

[[M] Jeff - Single Dad]

I am out of time, so I must speed read what Simon just posted, vote, and be off. Crap.

[[M] Jeff - Single Dad]

##VOTE: Elizabeth

I like what Simon says, but I do not know how much I like his apparent teaming up with Elizabeth. How passionately are you in cahoots with her, Simon?

[[M] Walter - Smart Dad]

##VOTE: Elizabeth

I like what Simon says, but I do not know how much I like his apparent teaming up with Elizabeth. How passionately are you in cahoots with her, Simon?

Not really bothered if lizzy dies, it just happens she is going after the person I am most suspicious of, thats all.

Seeing as I can only vote for women my choices are limited to women who are acting scummy, going after someone doggedly is what I do... apparently its what lizzy does as well, who is to say she wont cast her eye on me after she is done with Cat? as she said she trusts no one but herself.

[[M] Dave – Stepdad]

For now I'm happy enough to stick with my vote on Saladin but maybe my vote can be swayed if people would actually talk more

[[M] Harry - Dad's Dad]

I would just like to say, I am here now. So far the day phases have all been at bad times for me, so I haven't been able to actually converse with you and help find the mafia scum. I'm sure I must seem very scummy, and I would agree that there is at least once scum who was hiding among the inactives. The most likely case for this would be Saladin, and he is certainly the most useless of the town, for posting absolutely nothing of help or interest. I'm not going to vote for him currently, however, because the amount of votes on him is already very large and I would hate to rush the day when I have only just arrived.
I am curious about Simon's role claim. Perhaps you could prove that for us by voting for a male player, so we could see that you are indeed at least misogynistic, though that does not prove your side in this game.

[[M] Al - Biker Dad]

First off, I really don't think that was what she was getting at, she makes an interesting point that Alex was saying your not acting scummy because you were a driving force in the game, kind of ironic that you twist her words to get the finger pointed away from you when you claim she did the same, the Mao = Guilty = You = Guilty was just one of the points that she made, Alex said you weren't doing anything suspicious and it seems both Lizzy and myself disagree, pointing fingers at alot of people is in your opinion a good way to play the game, I do not agree.

You should note Alex did not say I was not suspicious because I am apparently a driving force. Read the post again: They are two separate sentences. Compare "Bolivar loves to eat raisins. Not suspicious." and "Bolivar loves to eat raisins so he's not suspicious". If I twisted words, which I do not believe I did, please explain to me how Elizabeth's post is to be interpreted if not as I have done. All you have done is allege she has made an interesting point; you did not even go on to explain what the point was. Or maybe Liz could speak for herself as no doubt she knows her motivations better than either one of us does.

You ask him to clarify this, then the next day you vote for him

I feel you have made a mistake here; I have never voted for Gandhi. A section of your case against me is based on a vote I did not actually make, I would appreciate it if you would reconsider that aspect of it. I can understand suspicion though; I would be suspicious of me too if I had voted for Gandhi and then said such a thing, so I don't hold that against you.

Why should it matter if Lizzy or I go after one person at a time? the whole point of saying if I (or lizzy as the case is now) get hung and she (or I) flip innocent then that would add weight to our apparent shared beliefs that you could possibly be scum, if I am to win (with town) I can't afford to spend my time pointing my finger at every single person I think is suspicious, I need to get on the trail of the Mafia and get them hung, words are my only friend right now, I can only vote for women, and I am not Mafia so I can't afford to spend my time going after multiple people, one step at a time ya know, I go for people who I think are guilty and if I am wrong then I apologise, but I am not going to change my beliefs.

If you do not want to go after more than one person, this is your choice although as I said, it is exasperating. My view is that there are likely to be 3-5 mafia members. Focusing on one person, even assuming that I am correct in my assumptions, means 2-4 get a free pass for the day. If you wish to disagree on this point as a matter of mafia tactics, okay, you are free to play the game as you wish.

You are missing the point of my post and I would like to explain it again so you understand. I was not commenting on what you and Lizzy specifically do, I was explaining why I act as I act. I have not voted for you for using your tactic, however mistaken I believe it may be. However, what you and Lizzy have done is to vote for me for - amongst other things - holding a different tactical view to your own. To me that is a nonsense... particularly when my tactic is the right one! Why, let me tell you all about Mafia XXXIII where Future President Mitt Romney used the tactic to great effect against the robot overlords

Also I do not believe it would add any kind of weight to such a belief. Note that Mao, confirmed town, voted for Hannibal, confirmed town. Town votes for town. I appreciate you think I am scum, but what if I flip town? Does that mean you or Liz are mafia? Of course it wouldn't.

Apology accepted btw

Also I am rather intrigued by your close association with Elizabeth, sharing her viewpoint to the letter and even seemingly speaking for her. I'm honestly surprised that one person holds the view about those tactics and indulging in such flawed logic, much less two of you. What's going on there? Are you piggybacking on someone else's ideas to blend in?

[[M] Anise]

##vote: simon bolivar
Until I see him follow through on his claim, I think it's a bluff.

[[M] D'Anna]

Trying to edit our posts, are we Catherine? You know that's against the rules of mafia.

[[M] Al - Biker Dad]

Being a good girl is boring, Joan. That's why I ride with boys in cars and you're left at home with the voices in your head.

(Apologies, Jesus I did not remove anything; I only added something!)

[[M] Dave – Stepdad]

yup editing is a no no but guilty it does not make somebody

[[M] D'Anna]

I would just like to say, I am here now. So far the day phases have all been at bad times for me, so I haven't been able to actually converse with you and help find the mafia scum. I'm sure I must seem very scummy, and I would agree that there is at least once scum who was hiding among the inactives. The most likely case for this would be Saladin, and he is certainly the most useless of the town, for posting absolutely nothing of help or interest. I'm not going to vote for him currently, however, because the amount of votes on him is already very large and I would hate to rush the day when I have only just arrived.
I am curious about Simon's role claim. Perhaps you could prove that for us by voting for a male player, so we could see that you are indeed at least misogynistic, though that does not prove your side in this game.

We should be thankful that Jesus have decided to give us 24 hour days rather than 12 hours, so people like you can at least have some say rather than totally miss out because of timing issues.

Though, I want to make a comment about Simon's role. Roles that are limited by how they vote are very rarely mafia, and if Simon is true to his word that he can only vote for women, then natrually, he would be town-sided as opposed to mafia.

[[M] Anise]

That's the point though, we don't know if Simon is true to his word in any way. Now, as far as I can recall, he really hasn't ever voted for any men, but that could just be a convenient coincidence. Also, even assuming that he really is misogynistic, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not mafia, does it?