Dark Souls

[Laddy]

Yeah, I never got into this game either. I'll echo the sentiment that the controls and UI are very weak and I don't find the combat mechanics or character advancement very interesting in the slightest. While the game picks up a bit after a "few hours", the opening hours are unforgivably dull, and I am a patient, patient man when it comes to things like this.

The atmosphere bugs me. Yes, it's dark and minimalist. I know it's supposed to be, but it's just not interesting and it all feels a bit uninspired and kinda "generic dark fantasy" to me. The plot and lore are minimalist but not in a way that's particularly interesting.

I don't know, maybe I'm an old man RPG gamer, but Dark Souls was just kinda...okay. Yes, it's difficult, but that isn't a selling point for me. It's just all a bit too action-y and bare-bones for me. I need more options, more atmosphere, and frankly...more to do.

I'mma join Pike and play some Fallout with a Speech-based on the hardest setting. That's more my idea of difficulty.

[TrollHunter]

I will argue the lore sentiment from you laddy. If you're willing to dig through item descriptions and the like, the lore can actually be quite fascinating and detailed. Nothing of the scale of TES, and it is very vague, but it can very fun to speculate and think about which is the point of it.
I will also argue that the controls are not weak. The tutorial I'll admit... is extremely weak, and I only knew all the controls from the start due to me researching the game before I got it. It was definitely an info dump, and the controls feel extremely unresponsive and awkward at first. The thing is, once you actually know what you're doing there are absolutely no attacks in the game you can't block dodge or parry. And once you get good at the game the combat actually becomes extremely fun and you really start to see the depth there.

I will say that the game lacked on the up-front story frontier though, and the game takes ages to really get into. Some people go multiple playthroughs without even noticing the underlying story, and THAT isn't a good thing in my eyes.
I went into this game knowing it's a very love-or-hate experience and I fell on the love side. I can definitely see how this game wouldn't appeal to a lot of people as it wasn't intended to do so.

I find the art design to be one of this games strongest points, with some of the enemy designs being absolutely breathtaking, and some of the areas like Anor Londo and the Great Hollow being simply gorgeous. I love the atmosphere of the game as well, and I was constantly paranoid and played in a very conservative way on my first playthrough because of it. Some areas were indeed lacking, but they were outweighed by the better areas.

This game takes a long time to get into, and it's impossible to say when the game will "start being fun" for any specific person. It got fun for me at the beginning of the Burg when I could start buying new weapons, and the game won me over when I reached the blacksmith. I was this games slave by the time I discovered co-op, and we're in a happy relationship now that I started doing challenge runs and PvP.

I will say though that if you aren't having fun by the time you beat the gargoyles... then this game probably isn't for you.

This game is also not as hard as everyone says, it's different. It relies on trial and error, along with a simple control scheme. It requires experimentation and dedication to beat, and it also requires that you learn an entirely new way to look at and play games.

If you don't like this game, I can completely get why and I won't berate you till you continue playing saying it'll magically get fun at some point. If you don't like it, than obviously the game wasn't made for you. That's fine. I will argue any points that get brought up trying to shoot it down as a game though.

[Quindiana Jones]

^

I'm one of the people who enjoyed the game as soon as it started. I also am fascinated and impressed by the story and the history of Lordran. I know the story and the history of Lordran because I pay attention to what's going on, and I explore... well, everything. I explore tiny facets of level design, I explore item descriptions, I explore everything every character has to say, and with all those small pieces of incomplete and often biased information, I can speculate as to what has happened and what is happening, as well as why. I'm a historian by qualification, and this trout gets me all kinds of excited. Irrelevant and long jismfest over the history of the gameThe character "Havel the Rock" is probably my favourite aspect of the game, in this regard. His history is phenomenal, but you can only understand it by considering the locations of things relating to him; what are they doing there? With this, there are also item descriptions that contradict what you actually see in the game. If Havel's Ring was worn by Havel's soldiers as a sign of respect, why did the character we met called Havel wear it? Perhaps he also wore one, but if not...

I can also understand why someone would have difficulty with the controls. Calling them unresponsive is incorrect, but I can see why someone might think that. I mean, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that after a long break from Dark Souls, I'm not nearly as good at the game as I was, and I have to relearn a lot of the intricacies - rolling at the right time in the right direction, blocking and parrying appropriately, how to observe an enemy to figure out how they're going to attack etc. I think the most common problem new players have with this game is the desire to spam the controls. Laddy was wrong in the right way; this game can easily come across as a typical action game, so people treat it like one. But if you spam five attacks and then roll, your character will spam those five attacks before rolling. You can't interrupt something you've already arranged to do, and that's on you. The controls are extremely responsive, if you kick the old habits and play properly. Dark Souls combat requires patience to not be trout at. The arguments that the control scheme itself is weak make no sense to me. You need to go to a hospital and have your crab hands seen to.

Now onto the infodump. Claiming the large tutorial area with sections cut off from each other in which you can practice each new thing as you learn it an "infodump" flummoxes me. That is incomprehensible nonsense. Having said that, you don't get much assistance after the tutorial area, which may be what Pike and MILF are referring to. In that case, yeah, I suppose it is an infodump. It tells you how to play the game in the first section, and then just sends you on your way to play the game and figure out the more intricate parts yourself. I liked that aspect, but some people don't. Fair enough.

Although, that tiny door off to the side that you need to run through to escape the Asylum Demon? Yeah, that's a bit silly. Poor newbies.

Not everyone will like this game because it is very different to most games, and that's okay. But most of the stuff said here is just "this part is rubbish because I don't like it". If someone claimed that Morrowind was rubbish because it didn't have HUD quest markers, or that the Elder Scrolls series was trout because most of the lore is found in books, I'd call them a silly little pleb. And you folks are silly little plebs also.

If you're stuck, use a guide until the Gargoyles. If you don't like it after them, you will never like it. I can't say when it'll get fun for you, because everyone is different, but certainly if it's not fun by then, it never will be. black orb hated it for a long time, MILF wasn't too impressed for a fair while, but I loved it from the start (and only loved it more as I went on). Try Dark Souls Wikidot and Wikispaces as they both have good area guides; you just search the area (e.g. "Undead Burg") and it'll tell you all.

At the very least, you need to meet Steve the Undead Male Merchant, and "Jolly Cooperation" Solaire.

e; Update:

Got a second Flame from Eingyi. Bloody knew you could get more than one per playthrough! I'm still convinced that you can buy one from that nice fellow from the Depths, but I'll have to start a new game to find that out. Got the Great Scythe up to +10 and thoroughly enjoying it. Having some trouble pulling off some of the cooler moves, like the big forward sweep. Seath is dead, as is every other inhabitant of the Duke's Archive. Even the crazy naked ones. I spent a load of souls making Boss weapons that I'll never use, which I greatly regret, since I could have put a few points into Dex haha. I've still got the Abyss, the Demon Ruins and the Tomb of the Giants to complete. I'm impatient to get to Oolacile, but I feel like it would be more proper to complete the main parts of the game first (other than the final boss dungeon, of course).

[Pike]

You guys are acting like we killed your dog MILF loves the game, he just has the ability to criticize games he loves, and I've already told you that I'm going to continue playing, making it the first game ever that I plan to continue playing despite disliking it

EDIT: Actually I forced myself through Oblivion too I guess.

[Quindiana Jones]

Geez Pike, you're acting like we killed your dog. We respect your opinion, we just have the ability to disagree with opinions we appreciate.

Got my Flame upgraded to +10, since Power Within no longer scales with it. Wanted to meet Quelana. Got over the her island, only to find one of those stone throwing s walking over to me. In dispatching him, I accidentally hit Quelana. Now she's throwing a strop that will cost me around 90,000 to subdue. For smurf's sake.

Know any good places to grind souls? I'm currently taking out Royal Sentinels for Chunks, giving me about 6,000 every 2 minutes. Could always cheap out the Forest Hunters, but it's so boring doing a run there. I expect I'll need to farm for a half hour or so.

e; Aha. It only costs 40,000 souls. Much cheaper than I was expecting. I've bought Firestorm, and am now doing runs through the Painted World for Large Shards and souls. Getting 12k every minute or two. It's great.

My Vitality and Endurance are at 20 and 40 respectively, giving me my max stats. I'm gonna get my Dexterity and Intelligence up to 30 before calling levelling quits for this playthrough. I'll spend NG+ getting them up to 40. Might knock them up to 45 each, giving me my maximum casting speed and the ability to cast Crystal Soul Spear.

I'm also starting my Strength/Faith build now. I've never used either before, so am looking for tips. You got any ideas for weapons and such? What level should I get them up to? I heard 34 or 36 is a good level for Strength, but I've no clue as to what to do with Faith. xD

[Pete for President]

I'm also starting my Strength/Faith build now. I've never used either before, so am looking for tips. You got any ideas for weapons and such? What level should I get them up to? I heard 34 or 36 is a good level for Strength, but I've no clue as to what to do with Faith. xD

Strength/Faith is pretty awesome! For a dual build like this I wouldn't recommend getting strength up to 50 (the requirement to use heavy dragon weapons) but to 40 max. That's where the scaling stops mattering anyway. For faith: go 30. Enough to cast sunlight/darkmoon blade. But I wouldn't level faith until you reach Anor Londo, or at least not higher than 12. You won't get the best miracles until you've saved Reah or joined the Darkmoon Blade covenant anyway.

As for weapons hauhauhauhau I love to use the Battle Axe at first, and then I usually switch to the Greataxe when obtained in the Depths. Rocking that is a ton of fun and crazy effective. Other good options are the Great Club obtained in Blighttown, the Large Club looted from the club wielding berserker trolls in Upper Blighttown, the Pickaxe which you can later combine with the Leo Ring, the Greatsword looted from Black Iron Tarkus' body, or if you're lucky the Capra Demon can (with very little odds) drop a Demon Great Machete for you. Ofcourse the Zweihander deserves a mention for being available so soon in game, but I don't enjoy using that at all.

I wouldn't recommend the Black Knight weapons as they require some point-dumping in dexterity. Those weapons are not buffable with the sunlight/darkmoon blade miracle, so it'd be a waste of levels to get Dex up to 18. Put those in faith and extra endurance instead. You'll need endurance to be able to carry those big guns.

Edit: 10 dex is enough to rock most ultra greatswords and axes. So pick the right class alright? Bandit or Cleric will do : )

[Laddy]

Laddy was wrong in the right way; this game can easily come across as a typical action game, so people treat it like one.

You mean an Action-RPG is action-y?

The point I'm trying to make is I dislike the action elements. You guys are making a leap that people dislike the game because they sucked at it. I didn't; I actually got the hang off it after a while. I just didn't find the challenges or rewards particularly compelling nor the character advancement all that interesting. It felt like a chore. Neither the story nor the world kept me interested and the game is far too combat-heavy to appeal to me at all.

Basically I don't like Dark Souls. And not because I didn't "get" it or didn't "have the right perspective", it's just lacking all of the core elements I'd want in a game, especially an RPG. I'm aware there is a lore here, but the world and plot is just not interesting enough to me to warrant that sort of research. Basically, give me a story that I want to be exapnded on, like with Fallout or Torment. Don't go the Final Fantasy XIII route and make me look for the story for me to be able to understand it. Lore should be optional in understanding the plot or world. It should flesh out the world, not establish it. It's just bad storytelling.

[Quindiana Jones]

Fair enough. I didn't get that from your post, so cheers for elaborating.

Now hurry up and continue the god damned Baldur's Gate LP.

[Laddy]

Sorry if I came off as bitchy, I just made this point before to more stubborn people. xD

The laptop with my save is all sorts of smurfed up, so I might start one with Enhanced Edition.

[Quindiana Jones]

Long and passionate wall of text about DS' story Dark Souls is more about its history than its story. Its story is told from the perspective of just another random Undead, who you happen to play. I like that aspect and found it very refreshing in an era of handholding; it actually reminded me a lot of Baldur's Gate! You're little more than a glorified NPC at the start, then trout starts happening and you're caught up in it when some random sod jumps you. In Dark Souls, you're just another Undead who's been sent to the Asylum for the grave sin of having the Darksign until some random sod appears and drops a corpse on you. The story continues in much the same way, whereas BG expands in its storytelling-centred fashion (because BG has an epic tale to tell). Dark Souls expands in its history as you play through the game, because it's the history that matters. And it does so in pretty much the same way we determine the past in the real world; the designs of buildings and items, their placement, incriptions etc. I can understand why people don't like that, just as I can understand why some people don't like history. Hell, a load of the biggest DS fans only play it for the gameplay because they can't be arsed with the story of Lordran and its fall! xD

I'll be honest, if you don't like the gameplay and you don't care for the story, then you can pretty much call this game a write-off, haha.

[Pike]

I figured out the controls and general way to play the game and got to Taurus Demon (is that his name?) I feel pretty confident in saying that this isn't an action game, but a puzzle game masquerading as an action game. Because of this, I don't think I will be playing much of it. Puzzle games (beyond Tetris-style things) which involve high amounts of trial and error and repetition were never my thing; they just fail to hold my interest for very long. Portal was a major exception because it was funny; I doubt I would've finished that game otherwise.

Notice that I'm not saying DS is a bad game. I'm just saying that now that I know what it is, I understand why I can't get into it.

[Madame Adequate]

You're getting close to the point where I'd say you can really say whether Dark Souls is your thing, in my opinion - I got past the Taurus Demon, into the next area (Undead Parish), and it didn't take very long in there at all for the game to click for me. I'd say stick with it until you reach Andre the Blacksmith and can upgrade your weapons because doing that is a big part of the game, but if at that stage you're still not feeling it then it's pretty much definitely not for you. (And yes I don't care what anyone says it is absurd that it takes that long for the game to get good).

[Quindiana Jones]

Currently grinding Pisacas for Humanity. Got 410 Item Discovery, and am getting a few Humanity every 30 seconds. Glorious. I plan on getting enough Humanity for the Fair Lady, and then enough so that I don't feel like too bad when I die and lose some. After that, I'll hit up the Royal Sentinels for a couple of Chunks, upgrade my Lightning Mail Breaker to +4, then go backstab some Darkwraiths for their precious, precious Slabs and Chunks.

Got Dex and Int up to 30, and have bought out Quelana's stock. Got my Great Scythe to +14, making it scale A with Dexterity. It does an obscene amount of damage to enemies that aren't strong against Slash attacks - which is pretty much just the unarmoured ones! I love it, though. The Balder Swag was making the game a little easy, so having a weapon that is less effective against certain types of enemies is a nice change. There's only so much a 400 damage weapon can be ineffective, though, haha. With Power Within and Crystal Magic Weapon, it's... well, it's utterly disgusting. Once I've got everything where I want it (or I get bored), I'm gonna head to the Demon Ruins first, I reckon.

Pike: this is very, very important. Have you met Steve yet? And as MILF says, it's worth sticking through till you at least meet Andre. I think meeting the Gargoyles is worthwhile, as you'll get a flavour of the boss fights and summoning, but if you can't be arsed, you can't be arsed. But it's worth meeting Andre and getting an idea of the weapon upgrading. If you still don't like it then, you can be pretty sure this game has nothing to offer you. xD

[Madame Adequate]

You mean the Undead Merchant? I call him Arthur myself.

[Quindiana Jones]

Gosmurfyourself.