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Thread: Transgender beauty queen disqualified from Miss Universe pageant

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar View Post
    Last thing I'm going to say JJ, the main point was, they weren't born female, and you can't breed with them.

    Let me ask you. If I introduced you to a really hot girl and then you hit it off and as you were going to your room for some sexy time she told you she was born a he, would you go throught the act
    If it's got tits and a vagina, sure, why not?
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    Ghost 'n' Stuff NorthernChaosGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar View Post
    To further the point Raistlin, while we may both be being shallow about this, you are basing everything off of physical looks whereas I am looking at genetics. I can't fall in love with a man, no matter how much they look like a woman. I don't know about you, but I can't have children with a man, but I can with a woman. I don't know about you, but I am not attracted to men, but I am to women.
    So you can't fall in love with a woman that's infertile? What a ridiculous qualification.

    What's hilarious is that this "man" is easily more attractive than any girl you've been involved with.

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    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    *puts on Mod Hat*

    Hypo if you're going to come in here with an outlandish statement you'd best be willing to back it up and discuss it rather than shut everyone else's discussion out with a "Haters Gonna Hate" image. At best you're being childish, and at worst you're giving poor Pinkie Pie a bad name.

    This isn't EoEO so I'm not going to delete your post or anything, but please consider that this is a pretty serious and sensitive discussion/topic and treat it as such.

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    Cacti humpper, I think it's safe to assume that you didn't intend for your comment to get so out of hand. As you defended your statement, you tried to make it better by saying something completely different. But in the end you screwed yourself. You're uneducated in this matter, it seems, as you think transgenders are merely "boys" trying to cut off their peestick and change gender to get the other men. It's not so simple, but your comment and your EVERYTHING is immature. So is my choice of words for male genitalia.
    Creativity is certainly about not being constrained by rules or accepting the restrictions that society places on us. Of course the more people break the rules, the more likely they are to be perceived as ‘mentally ill’
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    The thing is Pike, I'm not exactly sure how to explain how it is I feel about this topic, and I have some reasons for my feelings that I just plain don't want to share with the world. I said I'd respond to any PM I got on the subject, but to avoid any more hate, I am not going to continue arguing in this thread. I'm not trying to shut out conversation, I'm just trying to say that I don't want any part of this conversation any more.
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    No one's arguing here, more along the lines of saying your point sucks. Your comment blows. And I have a feeling you are ignoring me, because it most likely was how you warded off insults from the cool kids. Listen the only reason I'm mad is because when people discriminate on groups because they're different... I get mad. Like really upset.

    If you haven't read any literature on transgenders you can't possibly know anything right. You said because of the genetic disposition, alright... fair. But I said to imagine a world where everything about you was the same except you were born a woman. Your brain chemistry, your body structure, you likes/dislikes, everything the same but with breasts and a vagina. No penis. Would you be "lying" to the world by getting sex reassignment therapy? No.

    This world is not so clear cut, it would be boring. We need some things to expand our perspective, to look outside rules and challenge them.

    Is it appropriate to rule this person out? Since she lied, yes. But is it appropriate to re-consider the rule book? Maybe, allowing for transgendered in beauty pageants would be the socially just thing to do. But if surgery and hormone therapy alters the appearance, what so different than women entering with tons of cosmetic surgery? Then pageants become battle of the riches, and not of beauty.
    Creativity is certainly about not being constrained by rules or accepting the restrictions that society places on us. Of course the more people break the rules, the more likely they are to be perceived as ‘mentally ill’
    .
    “Fix the cause, not the symptom.” – Steve Maguire


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    she'll steal your heart Hollycat's Avatar
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    Jenova Junkie, of the two of us, I definitely know more about the procedure. I wasn't ignoring you either.
    I have reasons for the way I feel, and they aren't the kind that are easy to change. Now who is really being immature, you who are basically trying to force me to accept that sleeping with a transsexual is the same as sleeping with a woman, or me who simply thinks it's scary the way they can look so much like natural born women. And I'm sorry, but if you are born a man, you are a man until you die, no amount of surgery can change the way you are born. I have not changed what I have said, I just simply keep writing it in ways that aren't the way I am intending them to sound. Now for the last time, stop replying to me and asking me questions in this thread, if you want to talk we can talk via PM, otherwise leave me out of this ok?
    This post brought to you by the power of boobs. Dear lord them boobs. Amen

  8. #38
    Zachie Chan Recognized Member Ouch!'s Avatar
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    Default Maybe playing a bit of devil's advocate...

    Out of curiosity, are other contestants allowed to undergo cosmetic surgery and compete? I suppose the only way that I could make sense of this argument against transsexual contestants would be that no contestants are allowed to have any degree of body modification?

    I could understand a beauty contest's aversion to any contestants who have essentially paid for their beauty and therefore disqualifying transexuals on those grounds.

    Also from my limited research, this is also a contest that bans women who are married, have been married, or have every had a child. So, uh, it's not exactly an exemplar of equality to begin with, you know? Not that I'm suggesting that this excuses the recent situation, but I usually expect that outrage necessitates some level of surprise at the situation.

    For the record, I am not the least bit surprised.

  9. #39
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Recognized Member Raistlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC
    Jenova Junkie, of the two of us, I definitely know more about the procedure.
    Yes, you are clearly a paragon of knowledge about transsexuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar View Post
    Now who is really being immature, you who are basically trying to force me to accept that sleeping with a transsexual is the same as sleeping with a woman, or me who simply thinks it's scary the way they can look so much like natural born women.
    You, unquestionably. You have demonstrated nothing in this thread except immaturity, raging bigotry, and a willful refusal to even consider that your knee-jerk distaste may not be justified -- further demonstrated by your demands that people stop talking in this thread (while... posting in this thread). My jaw actually dropped a little at the part where you claimed trans-females are "tricking" men into "unintentional gay sex." That is not only transphobic, but mind-bogglingly stupid. A troll could not have made a more ridiculous statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by HC
    And transsexuals are not a race. They may be part of a race such as the homosexual community (sorry no sexy time, but we can still be friends) but they are not a race. are you honestly this blind?
    I never said they were a race; in fact, I clearly distinguished them. Read it again. I was using something called an "analogy." My point was that refusing to sleep with a certain race may arguably be more justified than refusing to sleep with transsexuals, because at least races have a physical distinction, and physical appearance is very relevant to sexual attraction.

    Let's forget MtFs for the moment. What about a person born with sexual genetic mutations, e.g., with ambiguous genitalia? That person's parents elected for a surgery to make that child physically female. Based on your reasoning, she (who had never known anything else than being a woman) should be treated like a leper, and no one would want to touch her for life -- despite all the physical parts of a woman and considering herself a woman. She is then "scary" to you, because she can "pass" as an actual human being instead of being readily seen as a freak of nature. What bulltit.

    Your exclusive reliance on genetics is baseless, arbitrary, and clearly done only as an excuse to justify your predetermined bigotry. You have yet to explain why that is the only thing that should determine who is male or female. Refusing to recognize someone as a woman who considers herself a woman and physically is a woman is shameful and seriously disrespectful. Physiology and self-determination (what someone considers oneself) should be all that matters.

    I don't see a point in trying to reason with you further.

  10. #40
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    Hypo I will PM you. I'm not trying to change your view, I was and still am PISSED that you made that comment AND STILL YOU THINK IT'S ALRIGHT. Now assuming that you didn't know about the procedure was and is wrong, alright I do agree. You may know how to do it, but do you know how to get it done? Do you know what kind of person it takes to get approved IN CANADA to do it?
    But I am sure you know more.

    Further more convo will be PM'ed. smurf Ill attach this post first if you refuse to read this here... gawd I'm vexed.
    Last edited by jenovajunkie; 04-02-2012 at 01:08 AM.
    Creativity is certainly about not being constrained by rules or accepting the restrictions that society places on us. Of course the more people break the rules, the more likely they are to be perceived as ‘mentally ill’
    .
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    Ghost 'n' Stuff NorthernChaosGod's Avatar
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    I don't think Hypo understands the distinction between gender and sex.

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    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar View Post
    you are basing everything off of physical looks whereas I am looking at genetics.
    I wasn't aware that penises came with an optional DNA testing adapter. Where do I mail away to get one?

    Anyway, slight jest/poke at HC aside, I agree with NCG. There's a world of difference between gender and sex, and it seems as though HC isn't familiar with the distinction, or maybe is simply ignoring it. Someone can absolutely be born physically male, but in terms of personality and in every other way possible feel they are female. The surgery simply makes the outside match what they feel inside. And using genetics to determine gender is silly given how often nature screws that end of things up.

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    disc jockey to your heart krissy's Avatar
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    I could rep the tit outta a dozen posts here in this thread (which I did, and these people know why I repped their posts) and be done but I had my 2 cents when I saw this post and I still wanna add them. And guys, I'm aware my post is long lol get used to it but instead of doing a TL:DR on it I encourage you all to read it because I'm going to for the most part do my best to take this serious. It's not EoEo but I'm also not just going to troll HC for this.

    EDIT: If you however don't want to read a long post and would rather see my comment about the topic to hand of Jenna Talackova then skip to the very end. But I will be very disappoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar View Post
    The fact is, a transsexual is a man. they may resemble a woman, but however far science has come it hasn't gone far enough to change your twenty third chromosome all throughout your body. So, despite the vagina, they are still a man, which means sexual contact is tantamount to having slept with a man.
    Actually they're not a man, they are a transgender, let's break this down so you understand some trans (change/transfer/move) gender (male/female) if I transfer from male column on the left to the female column to the right, I become female. Oh snap! Ok so let's say I give you some credit there, yes She was born a man and had the surgery to change gender at the age of 19. So what? She is still a female now, so what if she may not be fertile (which is something else you ludicrously implied is a pre-requisite of being a woman, what are we the Krogan during the Genophage?) she has all the other organs that counts as making her a woman. For all intents and purposes she is a woman.

    Is having sexual intercourse with such a transgender woman tantamount to having slept with a man? Perhaps but then let's put it this way, why the sudden homophobia? Why do you think sleeping with a man would be so bad. Is it latent homosexuality that brings this out in you? I could personally see it. You being so scared of coming out you project your homosexuality as homophobia it would explain a few things certainly.

    Quote Originally Posted by HC
    I have no problem with transsexuals,
    Ok so this is something you put as a half sentence with a comma there, frankly you should have used a full stop it's a bold statement one that your posts are not backing up. Clearly you do have a very big issue with transgender people (note I'm going to be polite here regardless of your bigoted language) clearly this fear of transgender people is seriously affecting you and clearly have given you a big problem with them. What caused it HC? Is this just another part of your latent homosexuality where you feel disgusted because you want it because for you sleeping with a man is so terrifying you kinda wish a transgender woman would sleep with you so that you could claim you've lost your virginity in the homosexual sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC
    I just wish there was some way to know beforehand, (although I doubt they look exactly right in the genitals, so that might be a clue) because I have no desire for intercourse of a homosexual variety.
    Ok first of all, it's called talking to someone, getting to know them before you hop in the sack with them. I'm a fine one to talk I go out to bars and clubs and I meet girls and sleep with them same night but then do I really care if I find out that the girl I met in the club last month and slept with on a one night stand was really born a man? As long as I was pitching and she was catching it in a vagina (well I'd use a condom clearly, I might be a slut but give me some credit people it's more for effect I imply she's catching it in her vagina) then frankly why should I have a problem?

    I'm also going to bust your bubble from the brackets where you wish they'd look wrong downstairs, clearly you haven't seen many vaginas before. Every woman on this forum will likely have a different vagina if they all took photos of theirs and could post them without breaching the forums rules (and were of course willing to do so) then no 2 would be the same. The regulated standardized perfect vaginas you see in porn (and we all know you watch lots of this to try and convince yourself you are straight) are surgically enhanced/repaired/changed.

    In fact, I've met several transgender woman post op. I also got to see one of them naked because I was openly curious when talking with her and I was polite about it too, she graciously decided to accommodate my curiosity. I can say without a doubt or hesitation her vagina looked perfect, in fact it looked better than some of the vaginas I've seen on top quality porn actresses. The only difference between her vagina and other vaginas I've seen (which I guarantee you is already more than you can ever hope to see in your lifetime) on "naturally born females" is that whilst she had all the right parts she could not naturally become wet during sexual excitement. To have sexual intercourse with a man, she has to use lubrication.

    Now I know you're thinking that's your sign if you're with a woman and she breaks out the lube run a mile! I'm going to burst that bubble too. Some of the girls I've known and slept with in particular those who have had relationships with abusive spouse or those who have been subjected to rape (which sadly is a higher number of women then I'd like to say had to go through such horrible experiences) often find it hard to become naturally wet too even if they want sex with someone. Therefore they will usually have in their homes lubricant of some sort to make it easier to sleep with the men they want to sleep with. Now, there are a couple of responses that you could say to that previous sentence or statement, all of them are hurtful, insensitive and I really sincerely advise you to not utter them not so much because you'd probably get banned for doing something as stupid as labelling a rape victim as "damaged goods" so much as you're likely to end up with a large group of angry women from this forum on your back, and honestly that tit scares the crap outta me so just don't go there.

    So in regards to the idea that there would be some way to tell, there really isn't unless you're going to run away from every woman who has a perfect vagina and wishes to use lubricant fluid. Though of course if she's got perfectly shaped D - DD boobs and a perfectly shaped vagina and is bringing out a bottle of lube either you're going to be turning down sex with a transgender or you're going to be missing out on the wildest, wettest, best sex of your life with a woman who could literally be a pornstar

    Quote Originally Posted by HC
    They are still people, they still should have all their rights, but to be honest, it feels like they are lying to the world and could be (and are) tricking men into having unitentional gay sex. If they could completely change their genetics, that may be a different thing, I don't know, and there is no point pondering it considering science can't do that yet.
    They should still have all their rights? How about their right to be respected by others? How about their right to be treated as normal women? You've stomped pretty clearly in this thread over both of those rights. I'd love to hear you defend this action to the rest of us.

    They could be (and are) tricking men in to having unintentional gay sex.
    What the smurf? Seriously dafuq did I just read? somebody please slap me right now I'm not quite believing my eyes, if I could face palm so hard I knocked the sun outta it's gavity well incinerating mercury and venus and turning earth in to a living hell and kick-starting the Martian life-cycle I would be doing this right now. I've stated already that I have met several transgender women, none of them have ever lied about it. None of them have ever tried to "trick me in to having unintentional homosexual sex" I have been offered sex by several of them, but they never tried to trick me. In fact unlike some "naturally born females" I know who I have openly stated I would never sleep with, who have later tried getting me drunk to sleep with me they have always respected the fact that no means no. One of them told me a tragic story once and it was her story. Several of the straight guys she had gotten to know in her post op life as friends had actually raped her because they figured she wasn't a real woman so it didn't count as rape, she had gone to the police about it and yet getting the police to take her seriously was because of the discriminating views of officers involved with the case towards transgender women was difficult so difficult in fact she ended up giving up and the men walked. These police officers who let her down so badly, well they were just like you. I think the people involved there are seriously despicable creatures. I'm not just talking about the raping bastards who did those horrible crimes to her, I'm talking about the police officers involved too. So why don't you wake up and get some real education here, before sprouting bulltit like the quote above because otherwise you're no better than a raping asshole or a prick of a police officer who failed to do anything to stop it.

    Yes there is a difference. One is a man pretending to be a female, the other is a female.
    No, one is merely born a female, the other had surgery to change to being a female. There is no men pretending to be women because there are no longer any men involved, you're getting confused with transvestites who are men who like to dress as women, many of whom are not pre-op transgenders but merely men who get a sexual buzz outta wearing womens clothing. You're just a bigot and a twat and deserve frankly a tit kicking.

    EDIT: On the topic of Jenna Talackova, I actually agree with Dan and Julian I totally would hit that! She's amazingly good looking and good luck to her in the Miss Universe Canada competition. However, I feel if she does win it'll be tarnished because people will be finding it hard to vote against her as they will believe voting against her will mean they're a bigot too.
    Last edited by Iceglow; 04-03-2012 at 09:30 PM.

  15. #45
    she'll steal your heart Hollycat's Avatar
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    I've Think I'm starting to see why you guys are angry, so here.

    I have no problems with transsexuals, I just don't want to ever have sex with one.
    This post brought to you by the power of boobs. Dear lord them boobs. Amen

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