The Cardinal Sins of Game Design

[Wolf Kanno]

Once again we have to agree to disagree about the virtues of mid-game sidequests in RPGs.

Well until the writing in JRPGs get better, I'm going to insist on having something to keep me entertained during the lull that is the main game.

[Slothy]

I disagree that it wasn't a deal breaker. The combat system is just awful in this game and while I can appreciate trying to find effective ways to not engage the enemy and escape as being fun, the actual sequences where you are forced to stand your ground and fight are just so frsutrating, with awful controls, with your character being incredibly ineffective in a fightcause most guards can pistol whip you once and have you almost dead, and some of the most awkward counter timing controls I've ever encountered in a game, it's like they purposely made them troutty cause they didn't want you to win. These segments are so atrocious I stopped playing the game, especially since as I said, even from a story perspective, it's out of character for the MC to be fighting directly and using guns to gun down people. It is the most glaring fault in an otherwise, good game. You have no idea how much I hate these sequences.

We'll have to agree to disagree then because even though those fight portions were totally out of place, I found them incredibly easy. The way they typically went down was this:
-run to the nearest guard
-enter bullet time
-wait for gun to turn red (and I do mean wait because it took forever)
-counter to knock him out and take his gun
-shoot everyone else
-carry on with the game

The combat may have been clunky, it may not have fit with the game, and it could have been dealt with a lot better. But honestly, most situations were something you could easily deal with in under a minute by doing the above. I can't say I ever had the slightest trouble with them at all when I came across them, nor did they frustrate me in any way other than getting between me and running. But they're all over so easily and so quickly I can't see them as anything other than a minor annoyance in a game which is otherwise one of the most enjoyable I've ever played.

[Roto13]

We'll have to agree to disagree then because even though those fight portions were totally out of place, I found them incredibly easy. The way they typically went down was this:
-run to the nearest guard
-enter bullet time
-wait for gun to turn red (and I do mean wait because it took forever)
-counter to knock him out and take his gun
-shoot everyone else
-carry on with the game

Alternatively:

-Run and slide kick them in the shins
-Kick them in the face to finish them off while they're bent over going all like "OH MY SHINS"
-or-
-casually walk behind them and rear disarm them

Combat was boring, but it was also super easy. If you have trouble, play it on Easy. It's not like the difficulty level affects anything but the combat.

[VeloZer0]

Once again we have to agree to disagree about the virtues of mid-game sidequests in RPGs.

Well until the writing in JRPGs get better, I'm going to insist on having something to keep me entertained during the lull that is the main game.

My solution is typically to just stop playing and spend my time on something else more worthwhile.

[Wolf Kanno]

I disagree that it wasn't a deal breaker. The combat system is just awful in this game and while I can appreciate trying to find effective ways to not engage the enemy and escape as being fun, the actual sequences where you are forced to stand your ground and fight are just so frsutrating, with awful controls, with your character being incredibly ineffective in a fightcause most guards can pistol whip you once and have you almost dead, and some of the most awkward counter timing controls I've ever encountered in a game, it's like they purposely made them titty cause they didn't want you to win. These segments are so atrocious I stopped playing the game, especially since as I said, even from a story perspective, it's out of character for the MC to be fighting directly and using guns to gun down people. It is the most glaring fault in an otherwise, good game. You have no idea how much I hate these sequences.

We'll have to agree to disagree then because even though those fight portions were totally out of place, I found them incredibly easy. The way they typically went down was this:
-run to the nearest guard
-enter bullet time
-wait for gun to turn red (and I do mean wait because it took forever)
-counter to knock him out and take his gun
-shoot everyone else
-carry on with the game

The combat may have been clunky, it may not have fit with the game, and it could have been dealt with a lot better. But honestly, most situations were something you could easily deal with in under a minute by doing the above. I can't say I ever had the slightest trouble with them at all when I came across them, nor did they frustrate me in any way other than getting between me and running. But they're all over so easily and so quickly I can't see them as anything other than a minor annoyance in a game which is otherwise one of the most enjoyable I've ever played.

They drag the game down for me because they are unnecessary and while encountering guards and having the option to fight them is fine by me, I can't tolerate the fact I have to devolve an otherwise intriguing game into being a silly unskippable FPS for no really good reason. The game is about free running in first person, why is there combat? If you are going to force combat into a game, make it worthwhile instead of making it half-ass like this game did.

VeloZer0 - My solution is to just buck up and enjoy the ride.

[krissy]

i didn't think it was half assed at all... most of the unskippable fight sequences were pretty much quicktime events (what're they called again?)
the final floor with the guards can also be done without fighting, as you can use the guards to your advantage, but i reckon it'd take some planning.

for the record i forgot about going into slow motion for most of the game...i found one use for it during a complicated jump...wasn't necessary otherwise. which leads me into this:

slow motion. not need for it in games that aren't designed to be john woo films anyway (max payne is ok. in fear it is a little bit ok. maybe in the matrix games.)

[Roto13]

slow motion. not need for it in games that aren't designed to be john woo films anyway (max payne is ok. in fear it is a little bit ok. maybe in the matrix games.)

Vanquish would like a word with you.

[krissy]

is it any good? i'll look into it if you say yes.

[Roto13]

is it any good? i'll look into it if you say yes.

It's VERY good.

JKTrix, come in here and say it's very good.

[JKTrix]

Approved. <==(Click)

[VeloZer0]

VeloZer0 - My solution is to just buck up and enjoy the ride.

Sorry, for some crazy reason I got it into my head that you were old and jaded.

[Slothy]

is it any good? i'll look into it if you say yes.

It's VERY good.

JKTrix, come in here and say it's very good.

Approved. <==(Click)

What these guys said. Seriously, the game is absolutely smurfing amazing. One of the best titles I bought this generation.

[krissy]

trailer looks like a romp
also sega haha nice
will get
thanks team

[Quindiana Jones]

If your game can and will only allow two player co-op, it should be splitscreen. If it allows more than two people, it should be online.

[GhandiOwnsYou]

If your game can and will only allow two player co-op, it should be splitscreen. If it allows more than two people, it should be online.

I would say if your game allows 2-4 person coop or multiplayer, and doesn't have split screen, then die in a fire. I don't know how I forgot this one before. During my last deployment, both me and my roommate blew all our spare time on games, there was almost nothing else to do. I can't even count the number of times one of us would buy a game that advertised co-op or versus, only to find that it was only online and we could not play each other. So aggravating. I remember running into an issue with Borderlands that drove us nuts too. My roommate had been playing since it came out, I decided to buy a copy of the Game of the Year version they had just released so we could system link. It kept telling us our versions were incompatible, we never did manage to get it working.

Adding on to the earlier Mirrors Edge debate, I never felt like the combat was unnatural at all. It was always quick, evasive. There wasn't really anything in the game where I felt like i was being forced into an FPS. In fact, when I did use a gun, I felt like I was only doing it because I wasn't good enough to get by quick and speedy. To prove the point that the game designers just wanted you to be damn good, strike like a ninja and run on, there's even a trophy for not firing a shot during a playthrough.