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Thread: Atlus says it is focused on making Persona 5 (MAJOR PERSONA SERIES SPOILERS)

  1. #16
    Recognized Member Jessweeee♪'s Avatar
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    I want to see demon negotiation make a comeback!

  2. #17

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    I will say the cult didn't help the situation any, no, but the events of Persona 3 were largely unaffected by Strega's activity. Their existance had little to no impact on the events relating to Nyx and the Dark Hour.

    Now I get to go into just why they were so awesome.

    P3 had a very intangable force the characters were fighting against. It wasn't something with a plot, there were no intricacies to Nyx's plan, only it's coming. Strega, and Takaya most of all, was something P3 using as an antagonist. Takaya symbolized all of the reasons why Nyx was coming, and he embodied that role perfectly. He was a manifestation of what the players were fighting against, and something that would force them to realize the situation and move forward accordingly.

    However he had nothing to do with whats happening now. Look at your own statement, the world now is as it was before P3.

    It was years before P3 all of this started happening. The world a few years prior to P3 didn't see Strega in action, so we can safely assume they weren't the cause of anything. This shows Strega's utter irrelavance in terms of the state of the worl, regardless of their importance in P3's story.

    (I feel that a character like Takaya is what Square enix intended Symore to be, only they failed horribly. )

  3. #18
    Skyblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands View Post
    I will say the cult didn't help the situation any, no, but the events of Persona 3 were largely unaffected by Strega's activity. Their existance had little to no impact on the events relating to Nyx and the Dark Hour.

    Now I get to go into just why they were so awesome.

    P3 had a very intangable force the characters were fighting against. It wasn't something with a plot, there were no intricacies to Nyx's plan, only it's coming. Strega, and Takaya most of all, was something P3 using as an antagonist. Takaya symbolized all of the reasons why Nyx was coming, and he embodied that role perfectly. He was a manifestation of what the players were fighting against, and something that would force them to realize the situation and move forward accordingly.

    However he had nothing to do with whats happening now. Look at your own statement, the world now is as it was before P3.

    It was years before P3 all of this started happening. The world a few years prior to P3 didn't see Strega in action, so we can safely assume they weren't the cause of anything. This shows Strega's utter irrelavance in terms of the state of the worl, regardless of their importance in P3's story.

    (I feel that a character like Takaya is what Square enix intended Symore to be, only they failed horribly. )
    Well put. I agree with what you said, but still have trouble phrasing exactly what I mean.

    However, it doesn't change that as the world and its feelings are now back to the way they were before P3, then Erebus should be as little of a threat now as he was then.

    And, man, FFX gets so much better if you replace Seymour with Takaya. You could even let him kill off Wakka or Kimarhi.
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  4. #19
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I can't answer all of your comments and questions Skyblade, but I can say that Elizabeth's story in P4 Arena shows that Erebus is still very much a threat. Mankind is still subconsciously wishing for the end, and I think a good real world example to show this is how much attention people give to apocalyptic theories like the Mayan Calendar, Nostradamus' Quatrains, and the Book of Revelations.

    As for the Shuffle Draw of P4, I like that it gave more options including recreating the randomized upgrade/leveling/mutation system of P2. I also like that the negative effects kept the dungeons interesting. P3's system is practical and good, but I just found P4's to be a little more fun and have better rewards at the cost of some steep risks.

  5. #20
    Skyblade's Avatar
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    Atlus had better be working on P5, because finally making it to the end of some of the story paths in P4Arena, I get the feeling that the entire game is really just a setup for P5, and hoo boy, has it got a lot to live up to.

    Unfortunately, I haven't completed every character's path, or unlocked Elizabeth's story yet, but I have to say, I am getting some very high expectations for the next game.

    And it further strengthens my belief that they aren't done with the blue haired boy yet.

    This game does too much work to fuse Persona 3 and Persona 4 together. Bringing together the characters is one thing, but connecting the adventures, bringing back the Dark Hour (as well as indicating in Akihiko's story that it may not truly be gone for good, as he talks about a disturbance that can never be fully healed), and the general setup they have that leads everything back to the place where it all began...

    (SPOILER)The Moonlight Bridge, where Aigis fought Death, where the P3Protagonist was infused with Death's power, where the final Shadow battle was fought. Now Elizabeth is searching for a way to bring the protagonist back, and both the Investigation Team and the Shadow Operatives are heading there again?

    Also, is anyone else wondering if Persona 4 Golden is going to include more hints? Is Maria, the new character, and the events added into the previously blank months going to foreshadow more of the future of the series?



    But, yeah, bringing back old characters as playable is going to be hard enough. Bringing together both teams is going to be incredibly challenging to pull off, but I have faith that Atlus can do it. I just wish (probably in vain) that we'll get some save transfer ability, or at least some basic setup manipulation. Because, I have to say, one of the weirdest things about P4Arena in my opinion is how it ignores the relationships of Yu's Social Links. I understand that it probably wasn't worth it for a fighting game that is an intermediate story, but if the Investigation Team becomes playable in a full RPG again, and Yu has to start all over when romancing Naoto, I am not going to be happy.

    I can understand, especially from a gameplay perspective, having to rebuild Social Links. It won't even be too hard to work from there if we assume that a single-round, all Social Links maxed playthrough is the canon base, that further relationships are developed on top of the old ones, but the romances were optional, and some indication of them needs to be built into the design.


    Minato (P3 MC) found his answer and made his choice, and I feel the heroic sacrifice he made is fitting.
    This is true, but too many things nag at me. First, there's the small reason: I really like the character and want him back. But there are other, more important reasons as well, little things that nag me all around the ending. Ryoji tells us that the protagonist will continue. The protagonist's "true" Persona, Messiah, is mentioned specifically as both Death and Rebirth. The Arcana themes of the story end with Death, which is the midpoint of the story, not the end. Why do we stop at the Thirteenth Arcana? Elizabeth is searching for the Protagonist, and believes that with the Wild Card (which is a couple of times stated to be able to make the impossible possible), she could bring him back. Everything drawing back to Tatsumi Port Island.

    I'm not saying that his story wasn't complete from a character development standpoint. Just that, from the standpoint of the story, the conflicts, the world, it all feels like there is more to be told. Yu's development was complete as well. But, as Margaret says, just because you've finished one Journey, found one Answer, doesn't mean that a new one isn't waiting.




    As a side note: I thought Aigis's personality module was formed around an item called a "Papillon Heart", not a "Plume of Dusk".
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    I want to see social links with party members actually having an impact on the in-story relationships between characters. I mean, it was weird in P4 when my MC was romancing Yukiko and she opened so much to him, and yet still behaved completely oblivious during the school festival...

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    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Atlus had better be working on P5, because finally making it to the end of some of the story paths in P4Arena, I get the feeling that the entire game is really just a setup for P5, and hoo boy, has it got a lot to live up to.

    Unfortunately, I haven't completed every character's path, or unlocked Elizabeth's story yet, but I have to say, I am getting some very high expectations for the next game.

    And it further strengthens my belief that they aren't done with the blue haired boy yet.

    This game does too much work to fuse Persona 3 and Persona 4 together. Bringing together the characters is one thing, but connecting the adventures, bringing back the Dark Hour (as well as indicating in Akihiko's story that it may not truly be gone for good, as he talks about a disturbance that can never be fully healed), and the general setup they have that leads everything back to the place where it all began...

    (SPOILER)The Moonlight Bridge, where Aigis fought Death, where the P3Protagonist was infused with Death's power, where the final Shadow battle was fought. Now Elizabeth is searching for a way to bring the protagonist back, and both the Investigation Team and the Shadow Operatives are heading there again?

    Also, is anyone else wondering if Persona 4 Golden is going to include more hints? Is Maria, the new character, and the events added into the previously blank months going to foreshadow more of the future of the series?
    Honestly, I don't see P4 Arena's story falling over completely into P5. I'm betting a sequel to P4Arena itself or more likely, some DLC events that will most likley wrap up most of the P3/4 casts stories. I'm not going to be surprised if the Kirijo group and several cast members make some high profile cameo appearances but I would bet it would be simialr to how P1's cast was utilized in Persona 2.

    But, yeah, bringing back old characters as playable is going to be hard enough. Bringing together both teams is going to be incredibly challenging to pull off, but I have faith that Atlus can do it. I just wish (probably in vain) that we'll get some save transfer ability, or at least some basic setup manipulation. Because, I have to say, one of the weirdest things about P4Arena in my opinion is how it ignores the relationships of Yu's Social Links. I understand that it probably wasn't worth it for a fighting game that is an intermediate story, but if the Investigation Team becomes playable in a full RPG again, and Yu has to start all over when romancing Naoto, I am not going to be happy.

    I can understand, especially from a gameplay perspective, having to rebuild Social Links. It won't even be too hard to work from there if we assume that a single-round, all Social Links maxed play-through is the canon base, that further relationships are developed on top of the old ones, but the romances were optional, and some indication of them needs to be built into the design.
    Well there is always the possibility that Yu simple chose not to be romantic with any of the girls. It is an option. I mean P3 MC and Yukari's relationship is technically canon but even looking at a lot of the concept artwork and how much the game really pushed the two of them together it was obvious that the creators meant for them to have a relationship but Yu in P4 doesn't have any of that. So it is very likely that Yu isn't romancing any girls because the creators chose to make thoses choses canon instead. Besides, his relationship with Yosuke is knee deep in Bromance territory as it is, and he is especially affectionate sounding when he talks about him in P4 Arena.


    Minato (P3 MC) found his answer and made his choice, and I feel the heroic sacrifice he made is fitting.
    This is true, but too many things nag at me. First, there's the small reason: I really like the character and want him back. But there are other, more important reasons as well, little things that nag me all around the ending. Ryoji tells us that the protagonist will continue. The protagonist's "true" Persona, Messiah, is mentioned specifically as both Death and Rebirth. The Arcana themes of the story end with Death, which is the midpoint of the story, not the end. Why do we stop at the Thirteenth Arcana? Elizabeth is searching for the Protagonist, and believes that with the Wild Card (which is a couple of times stated to be able to make the impossible possible), she could bring him back. Everything drawing back to Tatsumi Port Island.
    (SPOILER)Well not really, Nyx ends with the Arcana of death but Nyx is bringing forth death that mankind wishes for. The main character's story goes full circle with the Nyx Annihilation Team being the Judgement arcana and finally Minato pulled all his social links together to form the Universe Arcana when he reaches his Answer which is the same as the World Arcana just from the Thoth Deck instead of the more standard one. Minato did come full circle and he's technically not dead, he does live on as the seal that protects humanity from bringing destruction onto itself. He died and was reborn as mankind's salvation which fits nicely with his Ultimate Persona Messiah.

    I'm not saying that his story wasn't complete from a character development standpoint. Just that, from the standpoint of the story, the conflicts, the world, it all feels like there is more to be told. Yu's development was complete as well. But, as Margaret says, just because you've finished one Journey, found one Answer, doesn't mean that a new one isn't waiting.
    Well there will always be more to be told in the overall story, largely because the people who inhabit the Persona world don't realize they are trapped in a Lovecraftian World where several godlike beings have it out for humanity. Still, I can't really imagine P3's MC having anything left to do though. I imagine Elizabeth will save him and simply take him to the Velvet Room with her. Yu has a bit more of an argument of returning but I feel it will be more likely that he may show up in the future as a prominent side character as opposed to starring in a new title for himself. I mean he met Margaret in P4 Arena but Igor is the one you need to make the pact with so likely the new journey is more symbolic than foreshadowing.

    What I can say about what I've learned from P4 Arena (SPOILER)is that I really hope that the Malevolent Entity turns out to be Nylarthotep, I really loved him as a villain in Persona 2 and would love to see him return in all his glory, especially since we're bringing back the whole concept of Shadow sides which was first introduced in Persona 2.

  8. #23

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    And because I can, a direct comparison of Social links from P3 and P4! Who wins out!?

    Magician
    Yoske vs. Kenji - In the case of this, I’ll focus just on the social link, since Yoske is a playble, while Kenji is not, giving you a lot more time with him.

    Kenji was rather amusing, though admitedly I’m baffled by how a high school student could be quite dumb enough to think a teacher wanted his penis. Kenji is mostly enjoyable for amusement purposes.

    Yoske however has a lot more going on, playing off his history with Saki, and a lot more believable personal demons he’s dealing with. In addition he is funnier then Kenji.

    P3 - 0 -------------- P4 - 1

    Priestess
    Yukiko vs. Fuuka
    I really enjoy Yukiko. If I were to compare just the characters, Yukiko would win without a doubt. But this is about their social links, so I’ll try to minimize my own bias.

    To start off though, as much as I love Yukiko, her social link isn’t that great. It’s decent, don’t get me wrong, watching her struggle and feeling as if she has no control over her life is a pretty good concept, but really it’s kind of bare bones.

    However, in the case of Fuuka, having played P3 withing the past year, for the life of me I can’t remember a damn thing about Fuuka’s story other then you need max courage to eat her food. So, while neither one is great, I can at least remember Yukiko’s and found it enjoyable.

    P3 - 0 _____________ P4 - 2

    Empress
    Mitsuru vs. Margret
    Okay, this one is a no brainer. Margret has no real personal interactions, no lessons, no nothing. It’s just you making Persona’s so she can test your resolve. Kind of a cop out I think.

    Mitsuru is fairly typical with her struggling with the her life being pre-determined. Really this resembles the Yukiko Social link a lot in theme, though I found the execution better. This is a clear point for P3.

    P3 - 1 ___________ P4 - 2

    Emperor
    [I]Kanji Vs. Hidetoshi[I]
    I’ll start with both of these social links are good.

    Kanji has the growing struggle of coming to terms with his less then manly joys in life, and you have Hidetoshi being a rediculously strict law bringer type as the vice president.

    For Kanji, you begin to see not only an acceptance of his joys as well as realizing that if he wants people to understand him, he needs to put in the effort to help them understand.

    With Hidetoshi, he still holds onto his strong Ideals of Justice, though realizes he may have been trying to achieve them for the wrong reasons.

    In the end, I was a lot more invested with Kanji, and he felt more genuine and deeper then Hidetoshi. So another point for P4.

    P3 - 1 ______________ P4 - 3

    Heirophant
    Dojima vs. Old couple
    Starting with Dojima, he is one of the best Social Links of P4. He is a man struggling to find his wifes killer, all the while becoming distant from the family he has left in pursuit. While he never finds the killer, he finally admits he was using this case as an excuse to hide from his own lonliness, and the feeling of everything being his fault as he was a cop unable to find the guy. It is very touching.

    The Old couple is pretty amusing. The core of their social link Revolves around them having a hard time letting go of the past, and it is also very touching. However the actual problem they fight against feels distant, as you only hear accounts of it from them. It makes it a lot harder to connect with them then it is Dojima, so another point goes to P4.

    P3 - 1 _______________ P4 - 4

    Lovers
    Yukari Vs. Rise
    I’m really only going to touch on Rise here. Rise has a pretty mild Social link, pretty much her coming to terms with the Idol life, accepting she has multiple aspects of her personality and what not. Well done, just nothing special.

    I’m not touching on Yukari’s social link, because she is a pain in the ass who seems to say tit just for the sake of being contrary and bitchy. smurf her. Point goes to P4.

    P3 - 1 ________________ P4 - 5

    Chariot
    Chie Vs. Kazushi
    Yeah, this is another one that’s not all that spectacular either way. I have even done most of Chie’s recently, and have a hard time remembering details. smurf, I don’t even remember raising her up to Social Rank 6. I like the character fine, but she’s kind of boring. Her hilights are more Shennanagins with Yoske then anything.

    I remember Kazushi, but mostly because to build his S.Link faster you have to be an ass and encourage him to smurf up his knees for life. I don’t get this.
    POINT FOR NO ONE!
    Justice
    Nanako Vs. Chihiro
    The tale of a little girl who comes to realize she’s not as alone as she felt, and a Shy girl who learns to grow a spine and stand up for herself. I know Wolf Kanno before has said Justice was one of the better ones of P4, but I honestly don’t see it. It’s well done, don’t get me wrong, and Nanako is very enjoyable. But it’s pretty basic without any real surprises or unique twists.

    That said, Chihiro is even more predictable and basic. As well as being a lot more stereotypical to her role (Boy scared nerdy girl) then Nanako. Nanako, while coming across as more responsible for her age, they never push it to far and she still acts as a naive girl that young should act. Chihiro runs away almost in tears when you ask her out....

    Point for P4.

    P3 - 1 ________ - P4 - 6
    Hermit
    Fox Vs. Maya
    Alright, I really like the Fox. He amuses the hell out of me. That said all you do for him is random quests to raise the link. There really is no story building, so it’s pretty much a given P3 gets the point.

    Maya is funny, especially when you realize who it is (I figured it the moment she revealed she was a teacher. ) and is basically having issues with work and her own laziness. Mostly this is just amusing though, so it gets the point for having a decent story over no story.

    P3 - 2 _____________ P4 - 6

    Fortune
    Keiske vs. Naoto
    Again, ignoring Naoto’s involvement with main plot and focusing on the S.Link, we’ll compare the two.

    Naoto’s revolves around her solving a strange theft of her home, and you helping her solve the mystery. You help her realize why she became a detective in the first place, and come to terms with a lot of the stigma’s put on her by being a women in a male dominated field.

    Keiske, however, is kind of boring and blatently telegraphs exactly whats going to happen. Nothing comes as a surprise, nothing about the character is particularly interesting, and I’d venture to say it’s one of the weakest links of Persona 3. Point for P4.

    P3 - 2 ____________ P4 - 7

    Strength
    Kou and Daiske vs. Yuko
    This is one I enjoyed both of. Yuko fights through her own laziness, not seeing much of a point to put in the effort, and having no real goals. While it can very with strength, depending on which team you join (I’m going with Kou on this one), Kou feels like, since he was adopted and the birth of his sibling puts them in place to take over the family business instead of him, that he may not have a family, like they dont’ need him.

    Both are well done tales, but in the end both Daiske and Koe are better develeped characters the Yuko, and the story told is a more developed and better told.

    P3 - 2 __________ P4 - 8

    [b][u]Hanged Man[b][u]
    Naoki Vs. Maiko
    I will give credit to P3 for making Maiko one of the best Child Characters in an RPG (Though Nanako I like more. ). She feels like a kid her age should, and isn’t annoying. Her plight is a very real and understandable one, and her reactions to her parants divorcing feel genuine.

    Naoki is struggling with both the death of his sister, as well as the a resentment towards Junes, the store he blames for causing his family so many hardships. As with Maiko, his reactions feel very real and understandable. This is probably the hardest one of these to choose. However it felt a bit contrivied you were able to start the social link with him given his initial reactions, so in the end I vote in favor of Maiko.

    P3 - 3 _________ P4 - 8

    Death (P4) vs. Star (P3)
    Hisano vs. Mamoru
    To explain why I am pairing them up this way, in P3 Death was raised by Default according to Plot, as is Star in P4. Star in P3 however is optional, as is death in P4. So I’m pairing the optional ones together.

    Mamoru is one of the pretty typical ones of P3. Well written, he is one of the best athletes in Japan, however his family is impoverished. He must make a choice between pursing his goals, or working to help his family. They do a pretty good job and making you wonder how it will end up, even if nothing is really that riviting. Overall enjoyable.

    Hisano is an old women grieving over her dead husband, and is one of the more complex and deep social links of Persona 4. She is battling a variety of emotions and is a really depressing story, probably the second most depressing of any social links in both games. It is absolutely wonderful. It’s not really a contest who gets the point here.

    P3 - 3 ____________ P4 9

    Temperance
    Bebe’ Vs. Eri
    I don’t like Eri, and I don’t like her kid. Their situation is very real feeling, a step mother raising her step son alone, basically, after having so little time to get to know him. This could have been great, but I really don’t have a reason to care for either of them. The mother is a bit of a dip, and you don’t really spend much time with the son.

    Bebe’, on the other hand, is an excitable french foreigner obsessed with the culture, and doens’t want to move back to france. It’s really only enjoyable for Bebe’s amusing personality, though lacks in any real feeling of urgency for his plight. I at least enjoy Bebe though, so Point to P3.

    P3 - 4 _______________ P4 - 9

    Devil
    Sayako Vs. Taneka
    Alright, Sayako is a Nurse who has become disconected from her Job as a nurse, struggling a bit with the death she goes through daily that comes with the Job. Tanaka is a business mogel whose practices are Shady at best, who really only talks to you because he is afraid at first you may blackmail him.

    So what we have here is a hot nurse who wants in your pants versus a middle aged busnessman who says things at first that make you wonder whether or not he wants in your pants. The winner is clear!

    ....Middle age business man?

    Yeah, his S.Link is a lot more unique in nature, and really covers the description of the Devil Tarrot a lot better then Sayoka. I found his story a lot more intriquing, even if Sayako was enjoyable.

    P3 - 5 _______________ P4 - 9

    Tower
    Shu Vs. Mutatsu
    I’m amused that this is a battle between a old Bhuddist monk and a sheltered nerdy kid. Shu is afraid his mother will no longer love him if he fails to be the best, while Mutatsu is drinking away his problems over losing his family by focusing to much on work.

    Both are well told, but while your friends are all to welcome to the Idea of crashing a small childs house to throw him a birthday party, Mutatsu never feels like there is a contrived moment. In addition, I always find problems involving children a bit more difficult to connect with. Shu is still very well told, but in the end Mutatsu feels a lot more Genuine.

    P3 - 6 ______________ P4 - 9

    Moon
    Nozomi Vs. Ai
    In both cases, they are among the weakest S.Links of their respective games. A fat kid who scams money. and a slightly skanky girl who likes to shop. Both seem to be dealing with some pretty severe low self esteem, but neither character is particularly likable, and it’s hard to give a damn about them.

    Nozomi, however, has a massive issue with his S.Link. The whole thing about him charging younger kids money for a kind of Cultish salvation never really feels like it gets a conclusion. It’s just kind of dropped immidiately when you learn of his brother issues and not brought up again.

    So Point goes to P4 for at least tieing up the S.Link.

    P3 - 6 ________ P 4 10

    Sun
    Yumi Vs. Akinari
    Yes, there is an alternate Sun route, but smurf it. I did it once, and remember nothing of it. So we go Yumi here.

    Yumi is a girl whose father abandons them, and shows up while he’s dying to see them again. She struggles with feelings of abandonment, but also memories of her father being a gentle and kind man. This struggle is very well presented, and you really start to feel for the girls situation and want her to come out of it for the better. Absolutely wonderful social link, and I find it to be one of the most depressing, though it doesn’t rank up their with Misano.

    However, this IS the most Depressing. Akinari is an ill youth who will inevitabley die. He suffers both from his illness, and feeling like his life lacked meaning. He speaks very poeticly and deep in thought, yet never comes across as pretentios. His illness forces him to suffer through a large array of mixed emotions. The ending to this social link is both sad and beautiful, and is easily the best S.Link in Persona. As great as Yumi’s was, it really can’t compete with this. (And I love the refferance to the Pink Alligator in Persona 4 made by Kanji. <3)

    P3 - 7 ____________ P4 - 11

    And with a final standing of Persona 3 at seven, and 4 at Eleven, Persona 4 comes out ahead!

    Mind you, this is only in side by side comparisons. The score may be different if I scored each social link individually.

    Edit: For that matter, each link ranked from 1-5, and the totals added up!

    (SPOILER)
    Persona 3
    Magician: Kenji Tomochika - 3
    Priestess: Fuuka Yamagishi - 2
    Empress: Mitsuru Kirijo - 3
    Emperor: Hidetoshi Odagiri - 3
    Hierophant:Bunkichi and Mitsuko - 3
    Lovers: Yukari Takeba - 1
    Chariot: Kazushi Miyamoto - 2
    Justice: Chihiro Fushimi - 2
    Hermit: Maya - 3
    Fortune: Keisuke Hiraga - 1
    Strength: Yuko Nishiwaki - 2
    Hanged Man: Maiko Oohashi - 3
    Temperance: Andre Roland Jean Gérard (Also known as Bebe) - 2
    Devil: Tanaka - 4
    Tower: Mutatsu - 4
    Star: Mamoru Hayase - 3
    Moon: Nozomi Suemitsu (Gourmet King) - 1
    Sun: Akinari Kamiki - 5
    Total - 48


    Magician: Yosuke Hanamura - 4
    Priestess: Yukiko Amagi - 2
    Empress: Margaret - 1
    Emperor: Kanji Tatsumi - 4
    Hierophant: Ryotaro Dojima - 4
    Lovers: Rise Kujikawa - 3
    Chariot: Chie Satonaka - 2
    Justice: Nanako Dojima - 3
    Hermit: Fox - 1
    Fortune: Naoto Shirogane - 4
    Strength: Kou Ichijo or Daisuke Nagase - 4
    Hanged Man: Naoki Konishi - 3
    Death: Hisano Kuroda - 4
    Temperance: Eri Minami - 1
    Devil: Sayoko Uehara - 3
    Tower: Shu Nakajima - 3
    Moon: Ai Ebihara - 2
    Sun: Yumi Ozawa or Ayane Matsunaga - 4
    Total - 52

    Persona 4 - 52
    Persona 3 - 48
    Last edited by NeoCracker; 08-22-2012 at 03:55 AM.

  9. #24
    Skyblade's Avatar
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    Um, during the Sun link, you awarded a point to both sides.

    However, new challenge:

    Female MC's Social Links compared to those of P4.

    I think it will flip your totals quite a bit. First, a number of the Social Links get swapped to your other SEES members.

    Magician goes from Kanji to Junpei Iori
    Justice goes from Chihiro to Ken Amada
    Star goes from Mamoru to Akihiko Sanada
    Strength goes from Yuko to Koromaru
    Moon goes from Nozomi to Shinjiro Aragaki

    However, there are far more changes than that.

    Hermit goes from Ms. Toriumi to Saori
    Chariot goes from Kazushi to Rio
    Fortune goes from Keiske to Death Ryoji Mochizuki



    Those are some big changes. Nearly every link you point out as weak or bland gets redone, with good reason and an excellent handling. Furthermore, nearly every Social Link is revamped due to the differing sexuality of the main character.

    Basically, they took everything they'd learned from P3's and P4's Social Links, and worked on them to make the Female MC's. They had an opportunity to rebuild them, and they did.

    Fuuka's, Yukari's, and Mitsuru's are no longer romances, so the interactions have a distinct change. Rather than Fuuka trying to win you as a paramour as she learns her cooking, she's working together with a classmate to explore and improve herself, leading to a very different feel. And Yukari's is also an excellent exploration of female bonding, rather than dating. Mitsuru's probably stays the closest to what it was, but during Rank 7, I think it is, when she starts to confront the issues of being bound by her sex, she gets to unload on you quite a bit because you're a female character.

    The other members of SEES also have really solid Social Links. The guys, with the exception of Junpei (due to his relationship with Chidori), are romanceable, but the romances are optional, similar to P4's, as opposed to the male MC's "I can't be friends with a girl without sleeping with her" approach. And the Links are solid and well done on both paths. Most notable is Shinji's, which is easily one of the best in the entire game.


    Check them online, or play through P3P with a female protagonist, but I think you'll find your numbers changing a bit.

    Also, when P4Golden comes out, I'll expect another point added to the list, as we compare Aigis's to Maria's (yeah, Aigis wins. Unfair to call it? Perhaps, but Aigis's Social Link was frelling awesome).
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    I don't see myself playing through P3P, as I've beaten the hell out of P3 FES quite a few times.

    And unless they change Yukari entirely, I refuse to admit she could be good at all, cause smurf Yukari.

  11. #26
    Recognized Member Jessweeee♪'s Avatar
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    I love the P3P Female social links :3

  12. #27
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    You should look up the P3P Female Social Links on YouTube. They are well worth watching.




    Yay, finally finished Persona 4 Arena's story. Well, 99% of it, I seem to have missed one of the spin off paths. Let's see, I got Chie's, Yukiko's, and Kanji's... Does Yosuke have one?

    Honestly, I don't see P4 Arena's story falling over completely into P5. I'm betting a sequel to P4Arena itself or more likely, some DLC events that will most likley wrap up most of the P3/4 casts stories. I'm not going to be surprised if the Kirijo group and several cast members make some high profile cameo appearances but I would bet it would be simialr to how P1's cast was utilized in Persona 2.
    Doubtful, and I would be extremely upset if this did happen.

    First, I don't think that the storyline would support DLC additions. Labrys's wishes made sense for things to orchestrate the fighting tournament. Further exploration of the rest of the story would be more difficult to work into the one on one fight structure in a way that would make sense. None of the groups are going to be going after the culprit alone, heck one of the main themes of the story is the power of friendship and how the bonds let you do things you can't do by yourself. Setting up another set of one-on-one fights would be difficult, and feel contrived when added to what we already have.

    Second, the story is too big for DLC, or even likely another fighting game. The entire plot of P4Arena is a single event taking place in the TV world. It's a single rescue, the equivalent to one Full Moon challenge or a single character rescue in Persona 4. Important, yes, but only a small part of the whole. The ending gives us insight to a new villainous plan of massive scope, far closer to the much longer plots of the main games.

    Third, it isn't the sort of expansion that you get in fighting game DLC or most fighting game sequels. Just a wrap-up wouldn't add in much in the way of characters, mechanics, moves, etcetera. Look at BlazBlue. The average DLC is an addition of a character, nothing more. I don't think we'd be looking at such a massive plot expansion in DLC, or, again, even in a whole other game. On the other hand, if they use this to set up Persona 5, then they have a much broader base of changes to work with when they make Persona 5 Arena.

    Fourth, this is Atlus's first fighting game. It's story, awesome though it is, reflects its experimental nature. The story does a lot, but is largely stand alone, and in addition seems to set things up immediately for a sequel. I can't imagine Atlus would be planning to make another P4A game immediately after, no matter how well this one does. I think it for more likely that this game is setting up the events of Persona 5, which we already know they're working on.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it far more likely that this game is a setup for Persona 5 than that they are going to have something this closely tied in, and this experimental, suddenly become its own entirely separate spin off.

    What I can say about what I've learned from P4 Arena (SPOILER)is that I really hope that the Malevolent Entity turns out to be Nylarthotep, I really loved him as a villain in Persona 2 and would love to see him return in all his glory, especially since we're bringing back the whole concept of Shadow sides which was first introduced in Persona 2.
    (SPOILER)If we bring back Nylarathotep, we have to bring back Philemon as well. And you really think that that is going to happen in just a spin off series? It does make sense though, he is an inhuman shapechanger who uses Shadow selves as his tools... Now we just need to find out what human he is working with. Someone with ties to the Kirijo group, but beyond that...

    (SPOILER)Also, Nylarathotep's voice actor in the PSP rerelease is also the voice actor for P4Arena's announcer.

    Well there will always be more to be told in the overall story, largely because the people who inhabit the Persona world don't realize they are trapped in a Lovecraftian World where several godlike beings have it out for humanity. Still, I can't really imagine P3's MC having anything left to do though. I imagine Elizabeth will save him and simply take him to the Velvet Room with her. Yu has a bit more of an argument of returning but I feel it will be more likely that he may show up in the future as a prominent side character as opposed to starring in a new title for himself. I mean he met Margaret in P4 Arena but Igor is the one you need to make the pact with so likely the new journey is more symbolic than foreshadowing.
    Well, let's see. (SPOILER)Someone is trying to gather a large quantity of powerful Shadows. When has that happened before? Oh, right, twelve years ago, when the Kirijo Group did the same thing, resulting in the creation of Death and the start of everything that led to the Fall. And, as Elizabeth's story shows, the seal might not be enough to stop Erebus. Elizabeth, after all, moves in every time he reforms to destroy him before he can tear down the seal. Is she just trying to ease the MC's burden, or would Erebus be able to tear through the seal if left alone? In which case there is still definitely something left for him to do. But I don't think we're going to agree on this point, so let's just let it go for now. I do understand your point, after all.

    Incorrect. The pact is made with yourself, not with Igor. Igor assists guests who sign the contract, he does not offer them the contract to sign. "I choose this fate of mine own free will." That is the requirement. It is a pact with your self, to choose yoru future and to accept the consequences of your actions.



    ■In Persona 4 Arena, the file name for the Plume of Dusk image contains the words "nyx_wing".
    Huh, that's interesting. Sorry, was browsing the MegaTen wiki and this caught my eye.
    Last edited by Skyblade; 08-22-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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  13. #28
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Damn it NeoCracker, I have limited PC time and you keep making posts that make me need to give you a e-smackdown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post

    Yay, finally finished Persona 4 Arena's story. Well, 99% of it, I seem to have missed one of the spin off paths. Let's see, I got Chie's, Yukiko's, and Kanji's... Does Yosuke have one?
    It's the dialogue options in Yu's story. Basically you have to see all of them to get 100% so play through his story mode and just choose the top answers, then do another playthrough where you choose his bottom answers.


    Doubtful, and I would be extremely upset if this did happen.

    First, I don't think that the storyline would support DLC additions. Labrys's wishes made sense for things to orchestrate the fighting tournament. Further exploration of the rest of the story would be more difficult to work into the one on one fight structure in a way that would make sense. None of the groups are going to be going after the culprit alone, heck one of the main themes of the story is the power of friendship and how the bonds let you do things you can't do by yourself. Setting up another set of one-on-one fights would be difficult, and feel contrived when added to what we already have.
    Not really when you consider that (SPOILER)the malevolent entity can mind control people If it emerges as a the main antagonist then it can easily set-up another premise for a fighting game through its power.

    Second, the story is too big for DLC, or even likely another fighting game. The entire plot of P4Arena is a single event taking place in the TV world. It's a single rescue, the equivalent to one Full Moon challenge or a single character rescue in Persona 4. Important, yes, but only a small part of the whole. The ending gives us insight to a new villainous plan of massive scope, far closer to the much longer plots of the main games.
    You missed the part where I said a sequel may finish the P3/P4's cast major involvement, I never said it would complete the premise of P4 Arena, simply that a sequel to Arena could write the P3 and P4 cast members into playing more minor cameo roles in future Persona installments if it was done right. I'm pretty sure the (SPOILER) Kirijo Group, the Humanoid Anti-Shadow Weapons, and the Malevolent Entity will play a part in future game installments. Ultimately, I am simply hoping that P5 features a mostly original playable cast as I don't feel I would care to play as Yu and the Investigation Team again.

    Third, it isn't the sort of expansion that you get in fighting game DLC or most fighting game sequels. Just a wrap-up wouldn't add in much in the way of characters, mechanics, moves, etcetera. Look at BlazBlue. The average DLC is an addition of a character, nothing more. I don't think we'd be looking at such a massive plot expansion in DLC, or, again, even in a whole other game. On the other hand, if they use this to set up Persona 5, then they have a much broader base of changes to work with when they make Persona 5 Arena.
    Except Atlus is calling the shots as the owner of the IP, so we can't really look at Arc Systems' model for proof of a minor DLC. The game has done phenomenally well apparently and I wouldn't be surprised if that alone would convince Atlus, Arc System, and the Persona Team into considering a sequel or possibly more expansive DLC entries. Besdies if Arc System is doing all the heavy lifting, it would be pretty easy for the Persona Team to have them pump out another game while they spend their own resources working on P5.

    Fourth, this is Atlus's first fighting game. It's story, awesome though it is, reflects its experimental nature. The story does a lot, but is largely stand alone, and in addition seems to set things up immediately for a sequel. I can't imagine Atlus would be planning to make another P4A game immediately after, no matter how well this one does. I think it for more likely that this game is setting up the events of Persona 5, which we already know they're working on.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it far more likely that this game is a setup for Persona 5 than that they are going to have something this closely tied in, and this experimental, suddenly become its own entirely separate spin off.
    Yes but the success can make them change their mind, its not uncommon for an IP to change consoles, genres, and direction throughout its production. For all we know, this game is setting up the plot for a side project in the Persona Universe that could be its own full JRPG as opposed to just being for Persona 5. Though I agree that it is more likely the premise for Persona 5. I simply wish to bring the light that it's possible this story could be going into a side project as opposed to a full numbered installment. Of anything, it's too early to know is all I am saying.


    (SPOILER)If we bring back Nylarathotep, we have to bring back Philemon as well. And you really think that that is going to happen in just a spin off series? It does make sense though, he is an inhuman shapechanger who uses Shadow selves as his tools... Now we just need to find out what human he is working with. Someone with ties to the Kirijo group, but beyond that...
    Well the director has confirmed that Philemon is still there as the butterflies still serve as his avatar in P3 and P4. So the director has confirmed he's still exists in the later Persona Universe. He's just taking a back seat and I don't blame him after what he did in P2. I'm sure most fans would love to give him another thrashing.

    (SPOILER)Also, Nylarathotep's voice actor in the PSP rerelease is also the voice actor for P4Arena's announcer.
    He's also the same voice actor for the (SPOILER)Malevolent Entity according to the MegaTen Wiki.



    Well, let's see. (SPOILER)Someone is trying to gather a large quantity of powerful Shadows. When has that happened before? Oh, right, twelve years ago, when the Kirijo Group did the same thing, resulting in the creation of Death and the start of everything that led to the Fall. And, as Elizabeth's story shows, the seal might not be enough to stop Erebus. Elizabeth, after all, moves in every time he reforms to destroy him before he can tear down the seal. Is she just trying to ease the MC's burden, or would Erebus be able to tear through the seal if left alone? In which case there is still definitely something left for him to do. But I don't think we're going to agree on this point, so let's just let it go for now. I do understand your point, after all.
    Yet Elizabeth herself states how Erebus can be stopped for good and mentions that fixing humanity's heart may not happen until the distant future. Even The Answer states its something that will probably not be accomplished in the P3 casts lifetime or even in future generations because we're talking about changing the collective whole of mankind's nature. It is interesting to note that she just hint that Aigis may help her in the future which is interesting since Aigis can potentially outlive most of the human cast.

    As for the similarities from P4 Arena and P3 in terms of the villains motive, it doesn't necessarily concern the MC of P3. Of anything, this may just be showing that the (SPOILER)Malevolent Entity was manipulating the Kirijo group even back then. Similar to how P2 retcons P1 Persona 2 spoilersby having it revealed that Nylarthotep manipulated Kandori and the Nanjo Group to create the Deva System. . Of anything, I feel the scenario is simply tying all the games together and serving as another amusing shout-out to the earlier games.

    Incorrect. The pact is made with yourself, not with Igor. Igor assists guests who sign the contract, he does not offer them the contract to sign. "I choose this fate of mine own free will." That is the requirement. It is a pact with your self, to choose yoru future and to accept the consequences of your actions.
    You are right, but it's Igor who helps serve the one who signs the contract and Yu didn't sign anything in P4 Arena like the main protagonists of P3 and himself in P4, of anything Margaret contacts him of her own volition. He found his answer and while his journey may continue he no longer needs the help of the Velvet Room. This is why I feel he will not return as a MC for future installments.

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    Its what I do wolfy.

  15. #30
    Skyblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Damn it NeoCracker, I have limited PC time and you keep making posts that make me need to give you a e-smackdown.
    So why do you spend the whole post fussing at me? :P

    (SPOILER)If we bring back Nylarathotep, we have to bring back Philemon as well. And you really think that that is going to happen in just a spin off series? It does make sense though, he is an inhuman shapechanger who uses Shadow selves as his tools... Now we just need to find out what human he is working with. Someone with ties to the Kirijo group, but beyond that...
    Well the director has confirmed that Philemon is still there as the butterflies still serve as his avatar in P3 and P4. So the director has confirmed he's still exists in the later Persona Universe. He's just taking a back seat and I don't blame him after what he did in P2. I'm sure most fans would love to give him another thrashing.
    Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that he was no longer in universe, I know he's the blue butterfly. But he doesn't really exist as a character. And I don't think that you can bring back one of them without bringing back both, which would be a pretty hefty job to load on a spin off.

    (SPOILER)Also, Nylarathotep's voice actor in the PSP rerelease is also the voice actor for P4Arena's announcer.
    He's also the same voice actor for the (SPOILER)Malevolent Entity according to the MegaTen Wiki.
    Is he? I thought so, but hadn't gotten a chance to confirm.


    BTW, I'm not saying that we're going to be playing as the Investigation Team again. But I think they're going to be a large part of the game, one way or another. I think their appearance is going to be quite a bit larger than the previous cross-game cameos.

    I'm not sure whether I want them to be playable again or not. I didn't like the Investigation Team as much as I liked SEES, but I still liked them. And I would be curious to see how Atlus would handle a game with recurring characters. I could see it going either way. But I'm going to guess, at the very least, that we get some Social Link interaction with at least some characters from both P3 and P4.

    I'm also wondering if the age of the playable characters may shift. Because if we aren't playing as the Investigation Team, the next step would probably be to play as the Shadow Operatives... And that could be interesting.
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