What worked in this game

[Hollycat]

Well now I just have this idea of next time I play FFX-2 I'll impose a limitation on myself that every time I spherechange, I have to spherechange the whole party and I'm only allowed to change to particular sets of three as determined by some lists on a post-it note on the side of my screen.

Or maybe I'll play FFXII on a gambits-only game (i.e. no inputting individual commands for anyone but my leader; hit Reset whenever s/he dies.) That sounds like a very unfrustrating way to play a game.

Except for the reset thing that sounds Like I how I played the second half of the game My first go through.
That reset would be murder.

[krissy]

Or maybe I'll play FFXII on a gambits-only game (i.e. no inputting individual commands for anyone but my leader; hit Reset whenever s/he dies.) That sounds like a very unfrustrating way to play a game.

it's how i beat the final boss

i had no problem with it. but i'm a programmer sometimes so

and i've never played ffx-2, but i've never played ffx either so i don't think i ever will

[Rocket Edge]

The graphics were fantastic. There was moments where I stopped and just took it all in. Sazh was a good character all right. The music was average. Apart from that I genuinely wasn't happy with any aspects of the game. I still hold onto the thought that this is the worst game I have ever played and the disappointment was immense when I played it. I'm hearing rumours there will be a sequel to XIII-2, dear god.

[Jiro]

Very few of the other entries in the series would have a thread like this. Why is it that everybody's first instinct is to ask "okay so what didn't suck?" The game is far better than you lot seem to give it credit for, and damn near all the actual fans keep their mouths shut because they fear some ungodly judgement for enjoying a game for what it is worth instead of seeing it as a failed attempt to meet some imaginary guidelines established by its place within a series. If Final Fantasy XIII wasn't a main instalment then you lot probably wouldn't have said boo about it being bad. You'd've said "it's not a main instalment so it's a) not worth my time; or b) not bad for a spin off." Instead everyone comes in here ragging on trout and the couple of people who like it and aren't afraid to stick their head out of the grass are forced to salvage it. Maybe we should try and be truly positive about things instead of facetiously so.

[Slothy]

If Final Fantasy XIII wasn't a main instalment then you lot probably wouldn't have said boo about it being bad. You'd've said "it's not a main instalment so it's a) not worth my time; or b) not bad for a spin off."

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Jiro for the simple reason that I don't generally consider the worth of a game as part of a series but on it's own merits. I don't think FFVIII is a good FF title for instance, but I still enjoy it on several levels and appreciate much of what it was trying to do even if it stumbled frequently along the way. But I consider FFXIII to be hands down one of the worst games I've ever played. In my eyes it is a complete and utter failure on almost every level, and that's not because I'm comparing it to other FF titles. It's because I spent 30 hours with it which let me dive deeply into it's story, characters, and game mechanics and I realized quite quickly that there isn't even much of a game there. You could take away the FF title and I'd still think it was a terrible game because it's game mechanics created gameplay which is almost the exact opposite of what I consider to be good. If anything, it carrying the FF title had me playing far longer than I wanted to and giving it more of a chance than I think it actually deserves.

Maybe we should try and be truly positive about things instead of facetiously so.

I was actually trying to be somewhat positive about the game with this thread. I grew tired of discussing just how bad it is quite some time ago and felt like discussing the better aspects of the game. The very existence of Sazh demonstrates that the game wasn't a complete lost cause and could have been much better than it was. There was some potential for something better there if the development had just gone a lot smoother, and I wanted to find out what others, including those who hated the game like I did, thought the better aspects were.

But then you had to go and ruin that didn't you?

[Jiro]

I just wanted to antagonise people a little I enjoy FFXIII far more than I should given my position on the Census Committee but it just astounds me at how much hate there seems to be.

[dunk]

I personaly found it was an amazing game!

I can't believe what i'm reading when you guys say this battle system sucks, it so totaly does not! The only reason you think it sucks is because of the way you have the OPTION too abuse the system, theres no harm in scrolling down too abilities and choosing them, nothing stopping you.

Also, if you replaced auto battle with general attack, tell me what the difference is? you would still be mashing that button like theres no tomorrow anyway. The ONLY way this is different in the commando role atleast is the name attack is replaced with auto battle.

As for the other roles, this just saves you time in tight squeezes. And as far as i know, there is no major fights bar maybe the first couple that lets you get away with mashing that auto battle anyway, so realisticly its a same battle system as any other, only more fluent and in a way too make you react faster.

What pushes this system into a + is the fact that if you are going too grind away levels, or have too fight through too many random battles it lets you get away with not getting over exhausted by it, and at the same time is not letting you get away with free xp as your time is spent on it.

It then goes EVEN FURTHER with the paradogrim shifts ( i don't know how its spelt so ignore that), but by pushing this new element of switching your roles from tanking, healing, buffing and debuffing along with general damaging and stagger pushing roles it hits whole new levels of statergy.

This in turn makes the crystalrium thing even better, because if you play final fantasy like me ( i dont endlessly grind, nor do i skip as many battles as possible) your choices when making these improvements depend entirely on what fighting style YOU want.

So tell me how you can say that this system is trout, when all proir battle systems dont even begin too touch the elements of this one. What you don't realise is that you pushed through the game your way on your terms with your style, everyone has there own and this diverse combat system allows us too exploit that.

Rant over LOL.

[Wolf Kanno]

^ I would totally take apart your comment but Vivi22 said I have to be nice and staff says I'm on a parole basis for this forum, cause now that seiferalmasay32 is gone, I probably hate this game more than anyone else on this forum. That said, think happy thought WK...

I'll second Sahz, despite the sheer lackluster idiot party that is given to you, Sahz is actually completely likable and probably the most sympathetic to the player. His story is also one of the simplest, well defined, and well executed. I also wish he killed himself, simply cause it would have made me respect this game a bit more, but also cause it would have saved Sahz from having to pretend to star in the second half of the game when the plot went to trout. He is honestly a really good character and I feel he really deserved to be in a better game.

I like the concept of the armor/weapon combinations creating special effects, but Dissidia did it a hell of a lot better. It's honestly really badly done in this game. Still a cool idea...

I do like the idea that Squenix is trying to get around power-leveling by placing caps, but the new weapon/armor growth systems pretty much destroys the intention since you now spend more time leveling equipment than your party, especially since your gear is actually a bit more important.

I like the concept of the l'Cie, maybe because it's kind of a modern take on FFIII and FFV's stories but I honestly liked the concept til the game ruined it at every turn. In fact, one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to Type-0 is because they also use the l'Cie concept but from what I gathered, it's a hell of a lot more interesting.

[DMKA]

Everything worked. The characters were great, the soundtrack was awesome, the story was solid, the battle system was satisfying, the visuals were orgasmic, and the game was just overall amazing.

It's one of my favorite games ever and I hope SE makes more like it. <3

[dunk]

I like the concept of the armor/weapon combinations creating special effects, but Dissidia did it a hell of a lot better. It's honestly really badly done in this game. Still a cool idea...

I do like the idea that Squenix is trying to get around power-leveling by placing caps, but the new weapon/armor growth systems pretty much destroys the intention since you now spend more time leveling equipment than your party, especially since your gear is actually a bit more important.

Hmm .. ill be honest with you, i never bothered with the weapon upgrades, i maybe threw a few items out on this and that, but i never pushed it too an extent. But like i already said, it allows us too do that. You pushed your equipment too its best, i didn't, a playstyle choice. We still both got too the end. Never played dissidia so i can't really comment on the comparison.

[Jinx]

I like moombas.

[Wolf Kanno]

Hmm .. ill be honest with you, i never bothered with the weapon upgrades, i maybe threw a few items out on this and that, but i never pushed it too an extent. But like i already said, it allows us too do that. You pushed your equipment too its best, i didn't, a playstyle choice. We still both got too the end. Never played dissidia so i can't really comment on the comparison.

Yes, but picking and choosing how to play the game is not unique to XIII, of anything XIII restricts your options by creating a fairly linear experience in both dungeon design, story progress, and leveling. You're only option for most of the game is forward.

I honestly rarely used the weapon upgrade system as well. I honestly only needed it to do it for one fight cause I absolutely ignored it until Chapter 9. Then again, I never said it was good, just an interesting concept.

[dunk]

Hmm .. ill be honest with you, i never bothered with the weapon upgrades, i maybe threw a few items out on this and that, but i never pushed it too an extent. But like i already said, it allows us too do that. You pushed your equipment too its best, i didn't, a playstyle choice. We still both got too the end. Never played dissidia so i can't really comment on the comparison.

Yes, but picking and choosing how to play the game is not unique to XIII, of anything XIII restricts your options by creating a fairly linear experience in both dungeon design, story progress, and leveling. You're only option for most of the game is forward.

I honestly rarely used the weapon upgrade system as well. I honestly only needed it to do it for one fight cause I absolutely ignored it until Chapter 9. Then again, I never said it was good, just an interesting concept.

Unfortunatly, this was too strengthen the plot, the game opens up when you get too pulse and ultimately break free from the fal'cie control, everything before that is closed and only one way too move- forward, the way the fal'cie wanted.

It worked very good i think in a such a story driven game. There are times i wished there was more freedom in the citys too explore different nuts and crannys but i can forgive that with such an amazing story experience.

That being said, i didn't once find the gameplay boring or linear... if anything the only thing i didn't like was you could literaly walk past 90% of the fights in the game which makes it a lil easier and quicker, but costs you if you hit a hard fight without prior exp.

what seperates it from other games is the roles, and how you can only increase in one roll. It's simular too x-2 but cuts the crap that came with it. I liked that.

Some of the other games things like haste ect or buff's and debuffs are usualy a skill given too all. I think ff10 conquered this area though a bit better then 13. The new tanking role wasn't fully needed and would of been better if it was, but was still a pleasure too try out and use in tight spots.

[Wolf Kanno]

Unfortunatly, this was too strengthen the plot, the game opens up when you get too pulse and ultimately break free from the fal'cie control, everything before that is closed and only one way too move- forward, the way the fal'cie wanted.

It worked very good i think in a such a story driven game. There are times i wished there was more freedom in the citys too explore different nuts and crannys but i can forgive that with such an amazing story experience.

See this is where we differ, cause I honestly disliked the story, and I hate most of the cast. So the linear story driven experience makes playing through the first 11 Chapters a complete chore. Even Pulse itself proves to be a shallow and empty experience once the visual awe wears off, sometime around 15th Mark Hunt mission. The battle system itself suffers from being given to the player piece meal with the first several hours accumulating to wasting your time and then sticking to a Commando/Medic team for most of the early chapters.

Even the plot structure and pacing is off with the game throwing you into the story in medias res, but then taking it's sweet time to finally explain everything that happened before, making you not really sure why you should give a dman about certain people until hours after their personal trauma is over. The early chapters could be edited down considerably by making shorter dungeons and more concise and to the point dialogue, rather than the long drawn out 30 hours of your life til you get to chapter 9 and the plot finally begins. Even the plot itself is pretty anti-climatic with the writers making it pretty damn apparent who the bad guy was from the beginning and then the final chapters are the party finally just giving up and giving into the villains demand and getting a deus ex machina to give them a happy ending which just cheapens the whole experience. None of this is helped by the Datalogs telling the story better than the cutscenes.

That being said, i didn't once find the gameplay boring or linear... if anything the only thing i didn't like was you could literally walk past 90% of the fights in the game which makes it a lil easier and quicker, but costs you if you hit a hard fight without prior exp.

what separates it from other games is the roles, and how you can only increase in one roll. It's similar too x-2 but cuts the crap that came with it. I liked that.

I actually prefer the X-2 system because it gave me more control, it gave me a ton of more options, and I feel it was overall a more rewarding experience than just playing captain and ordering my troops to play specific roles. Which is saying a lot because I also feel X-2's combat has lots of problems and I am certainly not in-love with it like the majority of the forum is. FFXIII's combat is the only thing to entertain you besides the plot, but it gets old pretty quickly and I feel the sacrifice of control for speed kind of makes the designers forget what the point of gameplay is in a game, made worse by the game completely making death trivial. At least in XII I could customize the A.I. to me specifications rather than rely on what the game has pre-set for me. I just got bored changing A.I. scripts, and the Roles themselves are so shallow they don't offer anything more than playing the NES entries in terms of combat options so even actually inputting the commands gets boring early on.

I am being pretty honest when I say there is very little in this game I truly enjoyed. Like Vivi22, I don't think it's just a bad FF, I feel it's a bad game in general.

[ReloadPsi]

Ooh, I remembered the other thing I liked.

The way the party members wandered and bantered. It was way more original than the party-in-my-pocket or caterpillar approach, but then it was only truly possible in a game as linear as this one which really just speaks of the piss-poor design even more. Oh well.