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Thread: Activity Levels, if you don't use it, you lose it.

  1. #31
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    Boko: I think you and everyone else here are coming from two entirely different perspectives, so I'm going to try to explain mine. Staff members are not employees, they are not even co-workers, they are friends. They are friends who are voluntarily interacting with each other, with the only personal benefit being their own sense of enjoyment and satisfaction. Therefore, they need to work together in a way that is fun and doesn't turn managing EoFF into a tiresome chore.

    If you turn EoFF staff into a job with quotas and performance evaluations and, even worse, no time-and-a-half, then you make EoFF less fun. And EoFF needs to be fun, for everyone involved, or else they won't come here. And that would make BoB cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boko
    This policy shouldn't matter so long as there is some sort of policy.
    Then why not just agree with the general policy supported by myself, Vivi, and most everyone else? Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but the only thing you seem to be arguing against is that it's worth caring who is on staff. Do you think that the staff should be equally dismissive with how they choose new staff members?

    Any time spent discussing their current makeup or deciding new members is not time spent on the previous two things. One can argue it is an investment but this isn't a site that can afford spending all of its time with a single investment as we currently do.
    Apparently you do. I'm not sure how to respond to this. Do you really think that every single second the staff doesn't spend focusing on "improving" EoFF is a second wasted? That each staff member shouldn't be able to afford taking 5-10 minutes every 12-24 hours (and really, how often does one posted in even the most active and important threads?) in a new thread or two? I just don't see how any time is lost. There may be a reasonable argument to be made that the precise "activity policy" isn't a very significant issue. But I don't think that argument is that who is on staff doesn't matter and that worrying about it takes away valuable efficiency from EoFF staff. What exactly is being lost by EoFF "affording" all this attention to fun and games?

    In fact, even from an efficiency standpoint, I think our general proposed "be considerate and patient, but nudge them to resign if they stop showing any interest or maybe don't show up at all after a few months" is the most efficient, in that it doesn't require hashing out and voting on arbitrary guidelines. Unless you come from the "being on staff is a permanent right after its granted" crowd, it also should be generally acceptable.

    And what about the issues the staff face, such as combative members or declining activity or PG? Don't you think it's important to have capable, reasonable people in charge to manage those issues?

  2. #32
    Gold is the new black Goldenboko's Avatar
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    I feel like what we had here was an agreement of ideals, a disagreement of implementation, and then a misunderstanding.

    For whatever reason there was a consensus that I was trying to "make things less fun" which I wasn't trying to do, and I understood a bunch of posts as, "We shouldn't do anything to disrespect current staff" which really wasn't said either.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko View Post
    I feel like what we had here was an agreement of ideals, a disagreement of implementation, and then a misunderstanding.

    For whatever reason there was a consensus that I was trying to "make things less fun" which I wasn't trying to do, and I understood a bunch of posts as, "We shouldn't do anything to disrespect current staff" which really wasn't said either.
    Does that mean we can all have a hug that lasts just a little too long transitioning from friendly forgiveness into creepy when will this end possibly followed by a cupping of an ass and make up then?

  4. #34
    Gold is the new black Goldenboko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivi22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko View Post
    I feel like what we had here was an agreement of ideals, a disagreement of implementation, and then a misunderstanding.

    For whatever reason there was a consensus that I was trying to "make things less fun" which I wasn't trying to do, and I understood a bunch of posts as, "We shouldn't do anything to disrespect current staff" which really wasn't said either.
    Does that mean we can all have a hug that lasts just a little too long transitioning from friendly forgiveness into creepy when will this end possibly followed by a cupping of an ass and make up then?
    Indeed. Mr. Data, engage.

  5. #35
    Famine Wolf Cid's Knight Sephex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivi22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko View Post
    I feel like what we had here was an agreement of ideals, a disagreement of implementation, and then a misunderstanding.

    For whatever reason there was a consensus that I was trying to "make things less fun" which I wasn't trying to do, and I understood a bunch of posts as, "We shouldn't do anything to disrespect current staff" which really wasn't said either.
    Does that mean we can all have a hug that lasts just a little too long transitioning from friendly forgiveness into creepy when will this end possibly followed by a cupping of an ass and make up then?
    EoFF: Where threads end with a friendly ass cupping.

  6. #36
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    I think what we need right now is an All-Male Group Hug. Get out of here, Sarah.

    EDIT: So anyway, I'm not sure how we suddenly decided that we agree on everything. Are we now ok with the nudging people to consider resigning after showing consistent inactivity/apathy? I wouldn't be opposed to something like Vivi posted, where it's an auto-demote if there's no word for a long time, but I don't see that ever actually happening.

  7. #37
    Gold is the new black Goldenboko's Avatar
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    I call middle.

  8. #38
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    ugh, please. I don't need to be asked twice. Sweaty, mouthbreathing, sausage hugfest? Go for it.

  9. #39
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    A staffer is inactive, never posts, never contributes, they are just sitting on their title. When addressed, this staffer refuses to step down and starts throwing a fit. How do you handle this "activity level" situation?

  10. #40
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    Majority rules. If they've been asked to step down as a result of a vote between the others and their is reaction is to throw a fit, it doesn't sound like they're a good fit for staff. The best thing to do would be to would be for staff to explain their feelings about the situation and that it's not personal. Hopefully differences can be set aside but if that person is going to be bitter, it's not staff's job to coddle them.

    If a fit was not thrown and that person requested another shot, maybe a compromise can be reached with a 30 day probationary period or something, depending on the circumstances. No need to be heartless if they're willing to pull through with some effort.

  11. #41
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    3 month probationary period; if they go a long time without logging in or contributing in any way, they don't want to stay staff very badly.

    EDIT: Jinx.

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    What if this staffer is threatening to share staff secrets? How do you diffuse the situation?

  13. #43
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    We do not negotiate with terrorists. BAN HAMMER!

    And I do mean permaban. Once they're gone, shift things around to make whatever "secret" obsolete, like changing the FTP password once a site admin resigns.

  14. #44
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    Jinx you!

    The staff "secrets" are something I didn't take into account, but blackmailing to remain in staff should be the swiftest kick in the ass to get them off because that person is now definitely not a good fit at that point. I don't think that a situation like this should be treated as if staff is being robbed at gunpoint - aka, give them whatever they want.

    Diffusing the situation? Send up messenger of peace and wish them no ill feelings. I hate confrontational and contentuous situations, so I'm someone who will often give in and try to make peace. But if they leave on bad terms, they leave on bad terms. Are containing staff secrets really worth keeping a blackmailer in power?

  15. #45
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    I'd be highly skeptical, because I would hope someone who was a good enough member to get on staff in the first place would be mature enough to deal with the subject reasonably. That said, I wouldn't want to go into the discussion with "resign now or you'll be kicked out" perspective in the first place. Instead, I'd try to talk to them about whether they still cared about the place and if they still had a desire to contribute. If they explicitly didn't, then there isn't much left to discuss. Of course, depending on how big and immature the tantrum was, that by itself could warrant kicking them out.

    I also don't like the idea of formal probationary periods, and would consider it a last resort (if at all). I think the first step should be "we'd like to see you around more. Please be more active or consider resigning so we can replace you." I'd try to keep it as non-adversarial as possible, because I've been on the rest of the staff's side of that process before in other contexts -- and when it starts being adversarial, that's when emotions get strained. If the staff member continued to be belligerently stubborn and feel entitled to the rank, regardless of activity, then we wouldn't have much of a choice. A lengthy probation period at that point might just serve to stoke the drama in the staff forum instead of just being done with it.

    On the other hand, if they do seem sincerely contrite, then a probation period just shouldn't be necessary, and again makes the process needlessly adversarial. Just give them a second shot. Unless they've pulled the same trout before, why not trust them?

    So basically: probation periods would seem to either draw out drama or are unnecessary, and either way make staff discussion combative.

    But I really do hate that sort of entitlement attitude to a staff title.

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