IGN's Top 100 RPG's of All Time

[Loony BoB]

I'm sure you said it was a great game in some thread, but honeslty, it's not that I isagree with your position, it's honeslty that I find the idea of XIII being enjoyable as such a foreign concept that I honestly have to try to construct the type of individual who could possibly find enjoyment from this insufferable, poorly told, and tedious game simply results in a migraine. I honestly can't see anything good enough in this title to feel it deserves evn being called an "okay game". It is seriously the worst thing I've played since I was a child playing some of the shoevelware titles on the NES. I will be honest when I say I don't really trust any other games such a person would recommend cause we are seriously from two different worlds if that trite is anything more that utter trout. It is 40 hours of my life I will never get back and I seriously want a refund.

Well, you dislike a game. *shrug* These things happen. I thought FFII was quite rubbish gameplay-wise (and the story wasn't exactly incredible either, the characters were certainly underdeveloped) and a chore to finish, but that doesn't mean I disregard that some people might like that kind of thing and still be able to make a reasonable reccomendation. Reccomendations should never be taken as anything more than "I happen to like this game, so maybe you will too." Every game could end up being something you love or don't... no need to flip out just because you ate something and found it didn't hit your taste buds right.

Well not really with VI as the player's choices can affect minor things in the game (such as the fate of one party member or whether a certain character joins you) as well as the fact that the WoR is technically non-linear as the player can choose to actually finish some or all of the characters stories, or go straight to the end, unlike most of the FF series where the final dungeon doesn't open up until all of the main story has been told. As soon as you get the airship, you could just head straight to Kefka's Tower and choose to end the game whereas the players power to control the flow of other FF games is pretty much a choice of playing or not playing. The game is filled with hidden scenes and certain consequences for choices and you will never discover them without either a guide or seriously exploring the game and trying new things, which is somethign you can't really say about a game like FFXIII or even Xenogears for that matter.

You could say a lot of those things about games like VII, VIII and XII. Possibly V too. But yet you say...

As for my preferred style, the fact that VII, VIII, V and XII are there alongside XIII as my preferred Final Fantasy games pretty much says that linearity is not my preference.

I wouldn't really count most of those titles as being non-linear.

I think you're just being immensely biased if you say that VI is non-linear but VII, VIII and XII are not. Or you don't know much about VII, VIII and XII. But I know you do, so

[Christmas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2g7g...eature=related

FINAL FANTASY VI IS NUMBER ONE!!!!!!

[Wolf Kanno]

Well, you dislike a game. *shrug* These things happen. I thought FFII was quite rubbish gameplay-wise (and the story wasn't exactly incredible either, the characters were certainly underdeveloped) and a chore to finish, but that doesn't mean I disregard that some people might like that kind of thing and still be able to make a reasonable reccomendation. Reccomendations should never be taken as anything more than "I happen to like this game, so maybe you will too." Every game could end up being something you love or don't... no need to flip out just because you ate something and found it didn't hit your taste buds right.

I'm not flipping out, I am trying my best to verbalize how inconceivable it is for me to believe someone could actually like the game. I have people say it to me all the time too, so it's not like I feel my taste are somehow "holier than thou's" but I do tend to be apprehensive of titles that people recommend who like certain games I don't. I have a friend irl who liked XIII and even X and some other games I felt were rubbish, so I usually brace myself whenever I play a title he recommends for me, despite us both having some common ground on some titles.

You could say a lot of those things about games like VII, VIII and XII. Possibly V too. But yet you say...

Not on the scale VI did it, I would probably count VII and XII (though this is more about gameplay than story) being similar but I will explain why the others are not quite the same. VIII has one choice that can actually alter the story a bit and three minor sidequests that have some story purposes but otherwise the player has very little in the way of affecting the game beyond leveling and progressiing. Same with V as even though you get to choose what order to proceed certain events, it doesn't change that the story actually requires you to do most of it before allowing you to end the game, this is where VI is unique because once you get the airship, you can choose to finish the game or find the rest of the party, and then choose to find closure for some of them. Doing the quest to get Aerith's Final Limit break is not the same as unlocking Shadow's past by trying to get all of his dreams. Getting Odin in V or VIII is not the same as it was in VI where the player is also witness to a story giving background to the game's world and giving hope to one character if you had the foresight to put them into your party. This is what I mean, the story is affected by the player bothering to do all these things whereas in most of the games you mentioned, the sidequests are simply means of getting a few extra items or levels and have little to no bearing on the plot. Yes, all of the games you mentioned do have one or two sidequests that can give insight into the story, but VI actually intends for you to finish the story on your own terms whereas the other titles simply use them as rewards for going off the beaten path occasionally.

While choosing the order of events isn't unique to VI, I would argue that VI is more non-linear because it gives you the choice of finishing the game whenever you want whereas all the other titles still require you to do the majority of the quests and skip to the end. Oh how I wish I could just ignore the Hug Materia quest and just jump to the invasion of Midgard in Disc 2 but no, I still have to do everything to get to the North Crater in Disc 3 all the same. Whereas in VI, once I get the airship, I could save the next 5-10 hours of my life and just storm Kefka's Tower with Celes, Edgar and Setzer (we call this a CES run ) and just finish the game. The bulk of the Ruin World is one long set of optional chain quests, but most of them offer story incentives whereas most sidequests don't. There are non-linear gameplay elements in all the games you mentioned, but VI is the one that gives the player the most amount of freedom with the fewest restrictions. It's the scale of the choice that makes VI the most "non-linear" entry in the series. In the end, much like the "is CT 30 hours long or 60 hours long" debate, it really doesn't matter if one entry has more non-linear elements over another as it's just a gameplay mechanic at the end of the day and some people appreciate it, others hate it, and some don't really care. I would still probably call VI a linear RPG, espcially when compared to the Elder Scroll series, Mass Effect, and Baldur's Gate, just in comparison to the rest of the series, I feel VI has the most non-linear elements.

Just like having a leveling system doesn't necessarily mean a game is an RPG, having a handful of choices that only affect one or two elements of the game doesn't make the game non-linear. VI has several choices that both affect short term and long terms, as well as gameplay and the stoy. While my friend Bolivar may scoff at the idea of the the players ability to affect the game's ending by choosing not to finish the characters story, it doesn't really change the fact the player can affect the story and even the ending by their choices, which is much more inlined with what a non-linear title is. Now I am not saying VI is a WRPG, the game is still a JRPG with a mostly linear story but it has WRPG elements that allow the player to have more of a semblance of contol that is largely lacking in the rest of the series.

[Bolivar]

I honestly can't see anything good enough in this title to feel it deserves evn being called an "okay game". It is seriously the worst thing I've played since I was a child playing some of the shoevelware titles on the NES. I will be honest when I say I don't really trust any other games such a person would recommend cause we are seriously from two different worlds if that trite is anything more that utter trout. It is 40 hours of my life I will never get back and I seriously want a refund.

Wolf, this is seriously insane for so many reasons. I know you like to play Devil's Advocate but this is one if those instances where I really can't tell and I really hope you're okay, especially with two "honest" drops and 3 "seriously"s up in there, because this is crazy, crazy talk. I know you've played Assassin's Creed 1. If I had to choose between doing the same six mission types with horrible combat and a poorly fleshed out plot, or go through FFXIII, I would pour a drink, put in XIII and rock out to the sickest soundtrack in gaming today!!!!

Haha, ok, maybe the soundtrack isn't the best, but you get my point.

And for the record, I've NEVER purchased or even played any of the Compilation titles. I've only downloaded an Asian file of Advent Children and patched it with English subtitles but that's as far as I've gone.

And I would say that Dragon Quest VIII came very close if not did on the PS2 what FFVII did on the PS1 for me. It was like a new day and I did think that it may be the best RPG ever. Theres something about bringing an NES game into beautiful fully realized cell shading that made it such a huge game.

[NeoCracker]

If I had to choose between doing the same six mission types with horrible combat and a poorly fleshed out plot, or go through FFXIII, I would pour a drink, put in XIII and rock out to the sickest soundtrack in gaming today!!!!

Is getting stabbed in the kidney by a rusted knife an option in this scenario? Cause I'll take that one.

[Wolf Kanno]

Wolf, this is seriously insane for so many reasons. I know you like to play Devil's Advocate but this is one if those instances where I really can't tell and I really hope you're okay, especially with two "honest" drops and 3 "seriously"s up in there, because this is crazy, crazy talk. I know you've played Assassin's Creed 1. If I had to choose between doing the same six mission types with horrible combat and a poorly fleshed out plot, or go through FFXIII, I would pour a drink, put in XIII and rock out to the sickest soundtrack in gaming today!!!!

Haha, ok, maybe the soundtrack isn't the best, but you get my point.

I am actually being pretty honest here, I really hate this game and I really did walk away from it feeling like I wasted my money and my time on it. I may not be as bombastic about my opinion irl as I am on the forum but I'm dead serious that's it's the worst triple A title on the market right now. It's not just bad for an FF, it's just a bad game. While AC1 is certainly a poorly designed game (I don't know anyone, even die hard AC fans who would argue that AC1 is not the worst mainline entry in the series) I still appreciate it more cause it allowed me to explore the story more creatively, I still had the fun of running around and killing people by actually interacting with the world and the weak plot actually has a pretty big surprise at the end that made trudging through it feel a little more worth it (still not going to give it a second try) and got me to pick up AC2 the next day. In the end, AC1 was an actual game I interacted with and played.

As opposed to a title that restricted my movements, forced me to always move at it's discretion in only one direction, hampered me with a battle system where the game did most of the work, burdened me with a boring and even more dumbed down leveling system and poorly implemented equipment system so even customization feels mostly trivial so god know I gave up on opening the menu after awhile, and then forced me to experience a poorly paced Action sci-fi flick whose few cool themes and ideas were stolen from Persona 3 and then poorly implemented by having the whinest cast of characters who perpetually spewed the same nonsense for half the game until they got interrupted by the evil space pope who might as well be wearing a big smurfing neon sign that says "I'm the bad guy". It's plot is best summarized in a paragraph and then the game takes 40 hours to waste your goddamn time so your party could finally do what they said they weren't going to do 40 hours earlier at the beginning of the game, and then everything is resolved in an ass backwards literal Deus Ex Machina, I mean an actual Deus Ex Machina not just the literary variety, but the classical Greek definition where a god shows up and makes everything mostly right, who the smurf does that? That is the Xeno Team's territory. Maybe as a parody I could see how this title could be somewhat amusing, but it plays everything straight, and takes itself way too seriously, even trying to emulate various places and events from VII. What few good elements and ideas it may have come up with cannot atone for every other game design and writing sin the creators did to this title. XII was in a super long development but when you actually got to play it and see the technical marvel of the game and all the little things the developers did for it, it all made sense, XIII was in the same development period, and came out as a terrible pulp summer popcorn flick that you forget as quickly as you experience it.

And for the record, I've NEVER purchased or even played any of the Compilation titles. I've only downloaded an Asian file of Advent Children and patched it with English subtitles but that's as far as I've gone.

That's cause you're afraid of the Compilation.

And I would say that Dragon Quest VIII came very close if not did on the PS2 what FFVII did on the PS1 for me. It was like a new day and I did think that it may be the best RPG ever. There's something about bringing an NES game into beautiful fully realized cell shading that made it such a huge game.

While I can appreciate the beauty of bringing an NES game to full cel shaded glory, I found the game mostly lacking in other parts, it was a fun ride but I feel once the technical marvels wore off, the actual story and mechanics couldn't hold my attention. I still haven't even finished the Dragon Dungeon and gotten the alternate ending. Though I may say it's normal ending is probably one of the best in the series.

[Bolivar]

Wolf, we get it. You think FFXIII is linear. How original...

The real issue is why you ever spent 40 hours with the game if it is indeed as unfathomably horrible as you put forth. I recently started Dragon Age: Origins. It was a cool game, I enjoyed how it was all put together, but after completing a decent chunk of it, I decided it just wasn't for me. I put it down and picked up Oblivion on my quest to check out WRPGs.

But for you to play a game from start to finish yet come here and complain about how immorally it treated you, I'm thinking either the game really isn't that bad and you did get some enjoyment from it, or you really need to do some reflecting about the life choices you make.

[NeoCracker]

Wolf, we get it. You think FFXIII is linear. How original...

The real issue is why you ever spent 40 hours with the game if it is indeed as unfathomably horrible as you put forth. I recently started Dragon Age: Origins. It was a cool game, I enjoyed how it was all put together, but after completing a decent chunk of it, I decided it just wasn't for me. I put it down and picked up Oblivion on my quest to check out WRPGs.

But for you to play a game from start to finish yet come here and complain about how immorally it treated you, I'm thinking either the game really isn't that bad and you did get some enjoyment from it, or you really need to do some reflecting about the life choices you make.

1) It is linear. There really isn't a debate here.

2) You don't seem to understand something here. Me and Wolf like to bitch.

A lot.

[Wolf Kanno]

Wolf, we get it. You think FFXIII is linear, poorly written, rips off ideas from better games, and then proceeds to implement them as poorly as possible.

I fixed it for you.

The real issue is why you ever spent 40 hours with the game if it is indeed as unfathomably horrible as you put forth. I recently started Dragon Age: Origins. It was a cool game, I enjoyed how it was all put together, but after completing a decent chunk of it, I decided it just wasn't for me. I put it down and picked up Oblivion on my quest to check out WRPGs. But for you to play a game from start to finish yet come here and complain about how immorally it treated you, I'm thinking either the game really isn't that bad and you did get some enjoyment from it, or you really need to do some reflecting about the life choices you make.

Well that is kind of easy to explain, it was the only game I had at the time for my PS3 and I had no internet so I couldn't access PSN. It was also one of those titles where people kept saying it got better the further you got in and I kept playing, waiting for that "a-ha" moment. Honestly, I'm just stubborn about finishing games, and have a high tolerance for crap. I've said before I don't care for Valkyria Chronicles, but it hasn't stopped me from occasionally popping it back in and playing a chapter, waiting for it to finally connect with me.

[Laddy]

I share the idea that Dragon Age is totally overatted and I cannot see its appeal. To me, it just seemed way too generic in every way possible. It was well-written, but the totally boring setting, uninspired quests, and unpleasant gameplay ruined the experience for me.

[Wolf Kanno]

I have a few friends who insist I should play it.

[Laddy]

I have a few friends who insist I should play it.

Don't. Get Baldur's Gate II, Planescape: Torment, or Fallout 2. Plus, you can get them for cheap on Good Old Games.

[Wolf Kanno]

I should restart Baldur's Gate 1 and actually finish it.

[Fynn]

I should restart Baldur's Gate 1 and actually finish it.

You should The sequel is a lot better, but it's still nice to experience this game first - it makes you connect with the characters more and some of the twists in the sequel may matter to you more that way. Plus, you get to transfer data.

[Dreddz]

Deus ex at 25? For the longest time I thought it was agreed that Deus Ex is one of the greatest video games ever made but I think I need to reevaluate that thought. What a horribly under appreciated game. Should be in the top 5.

Other than that and snubbing the Phantasy Star games (I've always been aware that people never cared for that series) the list isn't so bad.