Yeah Paul put it very nicely, no doubt better than I could. My biggest problem when I was in my worst financial doldrums was that people were giving me the budget step, which was good, and then saying "There you go, all fixed!" and I was just "wtf no it's not fixed come back I need more help
"
Yeah I didn't want to suggest there was absolutely nothing at all to be done, you can usually improve things to some extent. It's just that there should be no surprise that budgeting alone is rarely sufficient for people who are legit poor.
I know how you feel, dear. I had to take a leave from work a little earlier than anticipated (i'm 9 weeks away from my due date) for the health of both myself and my son, which unfortunately, leaves us riding on just Andrew's income until 7 weeks after the baby's born. Minimum payments on bills and cheap-as-possible eating will be the way of life for a while :/
I know a lot of people who have financial woes and I know a lot of people who earn a notable amount less than they do but get by just fine because they live within their means (some pay rent, too, just a very minimal amount because they live with a large number of people). I also know people who are happy enough to live off the government with no job whatsoever. You can ask Danielle, she knows them too. =POriginally Posted by I'm my own MILF
So don't go around saying I have no clue when I have seen first hand the evidence that such things do bloody well happen. False accusations are a terrible thing and they certainly don't flatter you, MILF.
Also, pretty sure that a large number of people in this thread have said a hell of a lot more than "budgeting". Suggestions have ranged from cutting cigarettes to moving house. Budgeting just happens to be a massively important step to the whole damned lot of it. When people complain about finances and don't budget, then I'm sorry but what can you do besides first advising them to start budgeting? If they don't want to, then it's their own fault. If they do want to but it's not helping enough, then they need to go to companies like that which Psychotic works for and ask for professional advice. Again: You can't just ask for sympathy. Sympathy will not help your financial situation and your financial situation is an important thing. If your outgoings are more than your incomings then you need to take action until the problem is solved. Bitch at me because I might not be in such a situation and "don't understand" (because clearly everyone here has known about my financial situation all my life o_o I didn't learn to be a tight bastard by having a lot of money), but that doesn't make what I'm saying any less true.
If I didn't give a rat's arse about any of you I wouldn't offer you advice. So before you yell at me, consider the fact that I'm giving advice because I care about you bastards and I want to help. If you aren't willing to take the advice, then I ask of you: Why not?
If you really want to put me to the test, send me your incomings and outgoings and your living location and whatnot. I'll tell you what I'd do in your situation. *shrug* Might not be a quick thing though as I'd have to do a notable amount of research into your options. You'd still be better off contacting a company who specialise in this sort of thing, too. C'mon, Psychotic works for them. How bad can they be?
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
See BoB, the internet matured. People are actually helping and giving advice to each other.
...did not expect this out of general chat o.o
I took out a butt load of loans for college under the assumption I'd get my 3 paid internships. 1 third of the way there so far
Someone didn't read the later post I made in the thread
Ultimately saying "Budget better" is something that might help individuals but it doesn't address any of the problems that exist on the social scale; failure to teach people in school how to budget, failure to provide a decent, living wage for many people, extortionate rents, the near-complete destruction of social housing, the lack of social mobility and endemic poverty that afflicts many groups, the crushing debt incurred in going to uni or whatever in an attempt to better one's situation, the concentration of wealth and political power in the hands of a cronyist elite - these things are all contributing massively more than any individual carelessness or profligacy to the situation. So yes, Clo might find it easier to pay her bills if she uproots her life, gives up much of her independence, and lives like an ascetic, but she shouldn't actually have to do that just to get by.Yeah I didn't want to suggest there was absolutely nothing at all to be done, you can usually improve things to some extent. It's just that there should be no surprise that budgeting alone is rarely sufficient for people who are legit poor.
In closing,
Income inequity has been around since the dawn of recorded human history. Rich have always existed, poor have always existed. Class based wealth is almost a natural outcome of society so that image says little to nothing to me.
MILF and BoB: You're both focusing on entirely valid, but also entirely distinct, points. Huxley is focusing on overarching social/political problems, whereas Daniel is focusing on how to deal with one's situation personally. None of your points are mutually exclusive.
On one hand, the system sucks. It's created, funded, and continued by the people with money, who are most interested in keeping their own wealth. There are serious, systemic disadvantages with being poor that are incredibly difficult to overcome.
On the other hand, you still have to control what you can, and it's always possible to do something better. Just because a given situation sucks does not mean it could not suck somewhat less with some planning, organization, and effort. I don't think Daniel was dismissing the former issues (or at least I did not see any reason to think he was in this thread), but viewing them as a separate issue to the problem of managing one's own life. Because, well, it is, unless you just want to rant or make other people aware. But that still doesn't help short-term.
If anything, Huxley, you seem to be minimizing the importance and feasibility of careful planning and budgeting, which should be the main concern of one's personal life... and was the entire subject BoB was talking about. Nothing you said took away from anything Daniel and others such as Psy have said. I think your comment about BoB "having no clue" was unfair and unjustified. Something Psy said deserves special emphasis:
I kinda wanna rename this thread a nasally, drawn out "Fiscal Responsibility."
I did specifically say that it was specifically his statement about people on JSA making a living from it that was nonsense, if anyone cares to read the entire sentence?
The rest of your statement seemed much more broad than that, referring to his and others' statements about the importance of budgeting. That is what I was primarily addressing when saying you were minimizing the importance of planning and budgeting in individual lives and instead ranting about systemic woes. The latter's existence does not impact the significance of the former, and your statement that the latter is THE "reason you have no money" (seeming to refer to a general "you" instead of just Clo) is just as much an overgeneralization as what you are accusing Daniel of.
Also, admittedly I had no idea what "jobseeker's allowance" was (in context some type of government-funded unemployment?), and will say that BoB's statement in that context that "many" people make it a living (implying some sort of long-term abuse I'm assuming from Huxley's reaction, instead of him saying that people simply can live off of it) strikes me as highly dubious -- that is something that requires citation, and to something that's not the Daily Mail. Of course, assuming no one takes advantage of government benefits is just as bad as assuming every poor person does, but determining the laziness of a significant portion of an entire group due to the actions of some is disingenuous, and sounds more like a political soundbite than budgeting advice. I'll concede that point to you, Huxley.
Perhaps I should clarify that JSA isn't the only thing they claim. What I was getting at is that people who are unemployed are out there, making ends meet, using a combination of various state benefits (and I'm not talking disability or child benefits, I'm talking the benefits allowed to even me if I were to be unemployed). And for what it's worth, there are people living with their parents who probably do get by on JSA alone.
I have a friend who recently got made redundant at our work (no severance package, they were contracting) who has informed me of how they were surprised just how much they could claim, and that they would be able to get by okay if they cut out a lot of costs and just remained unemployed. But that kind of living isn't for them nor would it be one for me. Not because they want to work (although I do), but because they want to be able to afford things that are taken for granted by many of us but are not technically neccessary to live your life.
I'm fairly sure Psy has more of a clue as to how these people manage than I do, though.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
Yeah you can get by on state benefits if your circumstances are right. If you live in a privately rented property and/or if you have children you'll do just fine. Mortgaged people are smurfed, and people in social housing usually have pre-payment meters for their utilities and the prices on those are ridiculous. If you have kids then the Child Tax Credit gravy train will roll right into town and you'll be a-okay. Being part of a couple will also put you in a better position.
On the other side of the coin, it's impossible if you're under 25, single with no children. You get £56.25 weekly as opposed to the £71.00 for over 25's, or £111.45 for a couple. It's a complete and utter joke, because the gas company or supermarket or whoever don't suddenly say "Oh, you're 23! Here, have a discount!" or anything. For someone in social housing, £15 a week for gas, £15 for electricity, £5 for water, £3 for TV license, £2 for phone. You now have £16.25 per week for food, clothing and travel costs. Enjoy. You could always cut back on your TV license and have absolutely nothing to do all day, or stop using your phone so now you're socially isolated and can't ring up potential employers. That or you can go without heating or electricity, that's always a lark. And yeah you can just forget about any kind of leisure activities or buying anyone any Christmas/birthday presents! Usually they're forced to turn to doorstep or payday lending and get even more of an arsesmurfing.
The imbalance is something that pisses me right off.
Is that your stiff-upper-lip, British way of saying "fired"?
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