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Thread: Star Trek films of the 21st Century (remakes in general)

  1. #1

    Default Star Trek films of the 21st Century (remakes in general)

    I've noticed the Treks catching a lot of flack online. It's the same thing I've heard about Transformers, G.I. Joe, and pretty much nearly every remake in general (yes, I know those two aren't remakes). People go online and complain they could make a better movie if only they had the resources and the money which is just f-ing ridiculous because if they were half as talented and intelligent as they purport to be, they could produce an independent film with no more than a few friends and a home camera. I've seen countless independent films and a large number of them are surprisingly good for the ridiculously low budget they had to work with. These finks shoveling slop into their gullets, bloating in front of their computer screens wouldn't have nerve enough to try. That's why they waste their time complaining rather than doing anything substantial.

    Rant against "idiotic critics who are of no value to society" aside, what a lot of people fail to understand about the "reboot" is that its built to draw in the masses. It's true that Star Trek is "too cerebral" for the average viewer which is why it's more of a niche for the Sci-Fi fan in general. When was the last decent Star Trek series? (I don't know about those here, but most ST fans I've heard from declare that Enterprise with Scott Bakula sucked... probably because they didn't like Bakula... but then there is the fact that Enterprise takes place before the Kirk saga and yet the Klingons are those seen in NG instead of the ones we were used to from the original series) Do you want to see another Star Trek series? The industry seems to have given up hope for the franchise since Enterprise but I'm fully expecting Abrams' interpretation to drag in more fans made from those who spectated at the theaters.

    People complain that the studio jerks think the average viewer is a monkey with one hand on his groin and another on a snack waiting for the next flash of skin, explosion, or violent outburst (even choreographed fights). Here's the newsflash for you: IT'S F-ING TRUE! We are a planet of apes, people. We like sex. We like violence. We like anything in relation to a sense of power. Just because there is a portion of the human mind with the clarity and desire to understand more complex issues doesn't mean we're instantly gonna be drawn to a work that panders to that niche. I misspoke myself though. We're not apes. Apes are smart. Most humans have to be spoon-fed complex issues. But that's all societal. We're raised under the thumb of tyranny in one form or another and our first understanding is that survival requires overt displays of violence.

    One online reviewer (another jackass) complained that Abrams use of time travel to retcon the series while maintaining the existence of the original universe (Old Spock) was a blatant copout and while I agree that Nero is an idiot (why wouldn't he warn Romulus about the events he'd witness instead of waiting around to get revenge for something Spock was in no way responsible for?) and an overt plot device with no greater purpose than to crew the Enterprise with the faces we expect in a matter of minutes, I have to tell you, I don't really have a problem with it. But that much was obvious at the start of this rant.

    Personally, I have to one wonder 1) how long do Romulans live? Would Nero have lived long enough to warn Romulus. 2) If he warned them right as he arrived, would the people of Romulus have heeded Nero's warning centuries later or dismissed his appearance as a superstitious myth? 3) WTF would you do after witnessing the destruction of your planet? I'm pretty you'd be absurdly pissed and given the nature of Romulans being more or less contrary to Vulcans and on par with the vengeful nature of Klingons, it makes enough sense to me that he would have chased after Spock. Waiting around for 20 years for Spock to appear on the other hand is a little hard to swallow. He couldn't think of anything better to do with his time? But you can't f-ing argue logic with someone who has clearly lost their mind.

    Nerds and geeks are separated by a stark divide. I'm a geek. Like the otaku possessed of obsessive tendencies, geeks tend to obsess over things they like. I'll admit to things about the Star Trek movies that I didn't like (as I have above), but I balance that with the things I do like. Nerds are hypercritical creeps who are overly intellectual (like Sheldon Cooper) who break down everything you love and point out all of the reasons you should hate it. Don't get me wrong sometimes Nerds are Geeks too, but the latter term would envelop the former. Nerds are pure logic and they tend to think the problems of the world are caused by idiots who like guns and explosions who believe bigger is better. But the truth is that our world's problems are caused by the arrogant nerds with good intentions whose overinflated egos result in the creation of not only technologies but circumstances in general that become the world's issues.

    The reason I mention that (it seemingly having nothing to do with the above rant) is because it tends to be these same nerds who hypercritique such things as the recent storm of remakes who also tout holier-than-thou intentions explaining that the originals were more meaningful. Star Trek, for example, was a subtle morality tale about issues of the 1960s. Gene Roddenberry particularly "wanted Star Trek to show humanity what it might develop into, if only it would learn from the lessons of the past, most specifically by ending violence. An extreme example is the alien species, the Vulcans, who had a very violent past but learned to control their emotions." --STAR TREK on Wikipedia. Very many nerds aspire to be Spock-like in their day-to-day existence and more insist that Star Trek's overall message is that all humans should aspire to become Vulcans... could you imagine how boring our world would be? It is in this desire to become Vulcanized that nerds lose their grip on reality and aspire to alter humanity by more forceful means.

    --

    Anyway, sidebar: there once existed an argument over Transformers where one reviewer began seeming to claim that the movie was stupid and pandered to an audience of ape-like idiots with its giant robot fights. In response, it was proposed that this was exactly the point of the Transformers movie, people like it, and this guy should get over it. In return, he claimed he expected it to more of a hardcore violent giant robot romp than it came out to be instead offering pitiful bits of expired controversy and ridiculous attempts at purporting to subtly expose government conspiracy... I don't know about you, but it seemed to me that this guy was changing his story after realizing he had no bite in this dog fight.
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  2. #2
    disc jockey to your heart krissy's Avatar
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    i have only seen people say good things about the new star treks

  3. #3
    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    Dude the new Treks were great and I say this as a lifelong Trekkie.

    If there was one flaw I'd say they weren't quite "cerebral" enough, and while that's kind of a shame they're still really solid remakes and the new actors they picked are fantastic.

  4. #4
    Ogre Araciel's Avatar
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    They're good enough that I want to own hard copies of them - that's saying a lot in this advanced year. I could have done with a more... not-that-actor-'villain' in Into Darkness.

  5. #5
    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    This is a hell of an OP.

  6. #6

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    Mercen-X:

    I'll quote Theodore Sturgeon here.

    "Logical. Flawlessly logical."

    You're right on the money, and I'd like to re post my response to some of this STID-bashing in another forum.

    This attitude towards STID can only be called one thing.

    It seems quite a number of people have grown to think of the Star Trek franchise as being "above" the rest of the movie business, as though the focus on drama and characterization came about because The Magical Wizard Nickmeyer waved his hands and cast an enchantment over it, saying "thou shalt never more be 'low art.'"

    The truth of the matter, as Pauline Kael noted in her review of WoK back in 1982, was that the actors appeared "flabby and embarrassed" in TMP. Harve Bennett decided to start doing stories about old age for just this reason.

    I bet he never expected fans of his Trek movies to then go ape...ricots over a slim, young cast being hired to relieve the aging original cast. As a matter of fact, he had the idea to do it back before Star Trek V got made!

    The attitude you are taking towards the JJ Treks can only be called one thing, and must only be called one thing: SNOBBERY. Total, utter, universal snobbery from people who love to armchair quarterback the professionals from the Internet!

    STID is just what Pauline Kael described WoK as in the first three words of her review in The New Yorker, back in 1982:

    "Wonderful, dumb fun."

  7. #7

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    I initially thought it was on these forums that I had that conversation which is why I left it more or less ambiguous (admittedly my attempts at ambiguity are more often fruitless, my penchant for underestimating the reasoning skills of my peers being an all-too-painful thorn in my side), but I think the conversation was on another forum. I was the one who tried to get the critic to back off of Transformers because it was a show based on a kids toy and the movie was made to draw in a larger audience who thought the show was far too childish. Adults with a lingering kiddish-spirit like movies with action, explosions, gun-fu, superpowers, aliens, robots, spaceships, innuendo, and dumb jokes. One of the critic's major peeves was the fact that Bumblebee popped his radiator cap over Agent Simmons in an act similar to urination. He thought it was an overly immature act or something like that. He implied that the movie's attempts at humor fell short although meanwhile it apparently took itself far too seriously. Honestly, I couldn't tell if he could make up his mind.
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

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