Come on guys, group hugs all round!
Come on guys, group hugs all round!
MOD TIME:
Everyone chill.
NON MOD TIME:
I effing love the GBA because of all the great SNES ports and I don't even care. I like handhelds because of ports and Pokemon and that's about it. (Also because it used to be my giant family would hog the consoles, so the handhelds were the only thing that were truly "mine", but these days I have my own stuff, so!)
See, my problem with your list is that I have no interest in most of those. Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia, ok. And I do want to try Valkyria Chronicles at some point. Other than that, though, none of those appeal to me.Originally Posted by Bolivar
And that is why this discussion is pointless, because everyone prefers different games.
But, since arguing is fun...
Bolivar, what about Golden Sun series, the Rune Factory games, Dragon Quest IX, FFTA and FFTA2, the Fire Emblem games, the Advance Wars games, 358/2 Days, the Pokemon games, Radiant Historia, the Megaman Battle Network and Zero series, the Phoenix Wright games, the Legend of Zelda games, the Metroid games? I'd rate any of those over most of the games on your list.
None of which you've really done to any significantly respectable degree.
The majority of your replies just twist words and use your own personal preferences/experiences as fact rather than opinion all in a very underhand abrasive tone toward the person you're quoting. You show little to no respect about differences of preferences or tastes which is not "gentlemanly debate" at all.
On that context comment - it still stands - perhaps what I was making reference too was just a bit obtuse. The point I was trying to make was that your argument wasn't exactly holding a lot of water when you countered Nintendo's launch schedule with 2 games that came out quite some time into the PSPs life cycle. I fully understand that you were calling Vivi out on the ports comment but it was still a rather contorted counter argument.
Maybe I'm just miscontruing the way you're making your points though.
Last edited by Aulayna; 11-06-2012 at 09:32 AM.
Honestly Bolivar, I'm just not sure why I bother anymore. I'm just pretty smurfing sick and tired of every debate in which myself or anyone else disagrees with you about something lately resulting in you immediately accusing someone of not reading your posts or needing to work on their reading comprehension when they are clearly and directly addressing points which you yourself made. Frankly, it's more than a little insulting. If you think someone missed the point you were trying to make, then fair enough, but how about trying to actually explain it then instead of being completely dismissive and insulting the intelligence of other members in this wishy washy, non-committal way you seem wont to do?
But because I don't want to be completely dismissive and am still willing to engage you in an open and honest debate, I'll include an actual response to your arguments. As to any argument about functionality, yeah, the PSP is the more powerful system. The DS also has two screens and a more novel control interface. Which of those makes a console superior to another? Which is objectively better? How do you even begin to compare the two?
As to original titles, I don't think anyone could deny that the DS had a substantially larger library, complete with more original titles if only by simple virtue of having a control method that no other handheld ever had. Comparing the actual titles beyond that is a pretty pointless endeavor as any discussion of quality beyond perhaps comparing metacritic scores (still subjective, but at least it's an average of the published reviews publishers paid good money for and user scores) is pretty subjective and not entirely useful.
My point is, I really don't care about this debate at all. I have no pony in this race, and I couldn't care less which any of you consider better because there is no objective measuring of something like that to be found here. But I do disagree with you that ports and remakes are overly important in determining how good a console or handheld is. They're nice to have, but if all the PS3 had going for it was HD remakes of PS2 games it'd be a pretty terrible console. Ports and remakes alone do not a great handheld make in my opinion. And that's all it is, my opinion. If someone had argued that I should buy a PSP just because I could play the PSX FF titles I still own copies of on disc, I'd have laughed in their face. You can take it or leave it.
And hell, the DS and GBA had their fair share or ports and remakes as well. Often of a number of titles which are not RPG's, but are classics none the less, which would appeal to a different type of gamer, so if remakes and ports of RPG's is what you have to hang your hat on, that's cool for those that like them, but not everyone will. Again, it just highlights that this idea of one being better than the other is pointless. In fact, I generally like to steer clear of ever even stating that one platform is better than another for just these reasons. Sure, I'll list objective differences between two platforms until the cows come home, and I am more than happy to engage in speculation on what platforms I think may succeed or fail, but I prefer to do my best to steer clear of making firm, conclusive, value judgements when so much of which one someone likes more comes down to one question: what do you want from your gaming platform?
Last edited by Slothy; 11-06-2012 at 02:09 PM.
I can only add to this debate based on my limited experience. Danielle and I own a lot of handheld consoles - PSP, 2x DS, 2x GBA, etc. but not so many games, and we don't play games on them very often, either. The exception is playing PS1 ports on the PSP, because it's a fantastic console for this. When you add in the video playing and (admittedly limited) internet capabilities of the PSP, I've probably found it to be the best console.
Keep in mind I say console, not games. Games are very, very debatable and 100% down to personal preference. Some people might adore the Mario and Pokémon games while others might find them less interesting. Personally, Mario games never captured me outside of Mario Kart, which is due to N64 which is not a handheld console, so... yeah. Again, if we focus on console, I'd not say anything from Nintendo. I'd probably say the Vita, if I had used one and therefore could back up any claim. It probably is the best console. Just not the best library by any means! The PSP is similar but with a good library. And that moves on to that end of things.
The most interesting games I've played on Nintendo handhelds are the puzzle solving or language learning games. Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes. The main change - that of the actual Pokémon - is something I consider to be a bad thing rather than a good thing. So I dislike the series despite having spent my money on it (admittedly mostly through eBay at something closer to what I would consider value for money).
Professor What'shisface and the language games on the DS, though, both are great. I don't play them very often, though, and with that in mind I just can't justify the DS yet. I still need to play FFIII on it. Maybe that will improve my opinion.
As for the PSP, I would say it has a quality library because ports, to me, are one of the mainstays of any handheld console. Most Mario games I consider to be ports. Most Pokémon games I consider to be ports. Technically, are they? No. But particularly in the case of Pokémon, it's the same bloody game over and over again. I like the FF ports. I like the LBP port (well, it's okay, anyway). I really would love to have more ports on my PSP but I don't know if I can afford them right now. The early RE series is something I'd love to have a go on. Finally, the actual non-ported games. Every PSP game I've played so far - and I'll have to emphasise once more than I don't play games very often on handhelds, particularly games that are not ports - has been enjoyable, particularly in the case of Crisis Core.
If I had to take one console with me on holiday, the PSP would be that console due to the vast number of games I can play on it, the TV shows and movies I can watch, the internet sites I can read, etc. Of course, I'm lucky to not be limited to one console, as I wouldn't have wanted to be without the DS and Learn Spanish when I was in Menorca!
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
Can I please ask you:
Why you're coming at me? Why are you accusing me of dismissing opinions when I'm on the record saying this largely comes down to opinions? And you still haven't clarified what I said to Vivi was passive aggressive or "i'm right you're wrong."
Do you have something against me?
Can
You
Really
Blame me?
So you've said 4, or 3 1/2 times in this thread so far that you need more than ports/remakes to have a great handheld. How can I not help but assume you haven't read my post when ports/remakes were limited to a relatively small part at the end of a very long post? Is this really insulting when we have ample quotes by you to suggest it?
And how can you be insulted when the only contribution you've made to this thread was to disagree with me? Vivi, this isn't the first time that you've admitted to having no interest in the topic at hand, yet you still enter in order to pick apart my argument at every chance. What's up with you?
Bro, I actually own a lot of those games! I even think a lot of those games are downright groundbreaking. I thought Phantom Hourglass was an incredible use of the stylus and was an apotheosis of the Nintendo DS. I thought Rune Factory was an amazing refresh of the series.
I only made my list since Vivi said we'd been having trouble naming more than half a dozen decent titles on the PSP. I think both systems have a long library of great games. And I'm sure we could find some more titles that you would like if we talked about Growlanser, or the Legend of Heroes games and maybe some in the Disgaea universe. All I'm saying is that none of my favorite DS games have reached the heights of titles like Peace Walker or Valkyria Chronicles. I would throw Tactics Ogre in there but I might get my head bitten off for being dismissive or mean or something. So when it comes to library of original titles, as I said, quoted above, I really think its subjective, if you think the best titles on one can really top the best titles on the other. But I take better design and functionality and the extensive list of a lot of the greatest games ever made as sealing the deal. But that's just for me.
I'll also agree with BoB that:
Pokemon is the flagship Nintendo handheld title, it's a huge reason for owning one, to me. But I actually had to stop playing Pokemon White because the remake of Heart Gold was so much more fun. The series has gotten into some serious trouble on the last handheld, and I've heard Black/White 2 is probably the biggest debacle yet. It's one of Nintendo's key strengths to handheld dominance, and it's in dire need of help right now.Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes.
Last edited by Bolivar; 11-06-2012 at 04:21 PM.
OOC: For what it's worth, I haven't seen anything that bad in this thread except for the people claiming that what people have said was somehow really bad. Remember, everyone, to focus on the debate at hand rather than making things personal (being frustrated with the manner of debate from other members is not an excuse, if you feel someone has broken rules of the forums, use the warn button). I don't like repeating myself nor repeating other mods, so I trust that I'm not the only mod who will be happy to delete any further personal attacks in this thread as and when they are made.
This post is not a reply to anyone in particular, but rather a notice for all involved. Be respectful at all times.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
As I said, fair enough. But, for me, the DS's top tier games are better than the PSP's. and the PSP is hurt in my mind that the fact that its best titles are ports. My favorite PSP title is probably P3P, followed by FFVII and Birth By Sleep. And while I love P3P and have played it to death, it isn't as good as Chrono Trigger, and CT's best version is on the DS. Going by original games, BBS and Dissidia are probably my favorites on the system, and, while good, they don't stack up to FFTA2, Rune Factory 3, or Golden Sun.Bro, I actually own a lot of those games! I even think a lot of those games are downright groundbreaking. I thought Phantom Hourglass was an incredible use of the stylus and was an apotheosis of the Nintendo DS. I thought Rune Factory was an amazing refresh of the series.
I only made my list since Vivi said we'd been having trouble naming more than half a dozen decent titles on the PSP. I think both systems have a long library of great games. And I'm sure we could find some more titles that you would like if we talked about Growlanser, or the Legend of Heroes games and maybe some in the Disgaea universe. All I'm saying is that none of my favorite DS games have reached the heights of titles like Peace Walker or Valkyria Chronicles. I would throw Tactics Ogre in there but I might get my head bitten off for being dismissive or mean or something. So when it comes to library of original titles, as I said, quoted above, I really think its subjective, if you think the best titles on one can really top the best titles on the other. But I take better design and functionality and the extensive list of a lot of the greatest games ever made as sealing the deal. But that's just for me.
I'll also agree with BoB that:
Pokemon is the flagship Nintendo handheld title, it's a huge reason for owning one, to me. But I actually had to stop playing Pokemon White because the remake of Heart Gold was so much more fun. The series has gotten into some serious trouble on the last handheld, and I've heard Black/White 2 is probably the biggest debacle yet. It's one of Nintendo's key strengths to handheld dominance, and it's in dire need of help right now.Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes.
Pokemon's only real innovation is in its spinoffs, unfortunately. The main series seems to do its best to kill innovation everywhere. And I hated the remake of Gold and Silver, as I explained in detail in my post in the "Good Games You Hate" thread. Give us a sequel, even a handheld sequel, to XD, please!
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I know we've been asked to stop but as you asked me to clarify I'll owe you that and then leave it here and agree to disagree with you on most points.
No I don't have nothing against you, just the way you have gone about posting your opinion in this - and the other thread - by in large you cycle two games repeatedly as being the best games ever and whenever people have posted titles they have enjoyed you immediately jump into a game of one-up-manship with PSP titles/functionality that you deem to be better without even as much of a sidethought as to why the person posted what they did. This can be interpreted as dismissing their opinion or saying they're wrong. Largely (outside of this particular debate) I find a lot of your posts quite insightful and this is nothing personal against you at all.Can I please ask you:
Why you're coming at me? Why are you accusing me of dismissing opinions when I'm on the record saying this largely comes down to opinions? And you still haven't clarified what I said to Vivi was passive aggressive or "i'm right you're wrong."
Do you have something against me?
I would also touch on one other thing but I fear that would really be veering into pissing mods off territory. So I'll let that dog sleep.
Then there's also the style of language (which sadly being on the worlds crappiest laptop right now I don't have the luxury of digging all the examples out) you use referring to things as "nitrous boosts" for example which is clearly an attempt to illicit a response - which is mostly what I was trying to point out. Maybe it's meant as jovial digging, I don't know, but if it is it really doesn't come across that way - it comes off as abrasive to me. As I said in my previous post though - perhaps I'm miscontruing your point(s ). I was (probably in the wrong way) probing for something like this...
If all of your posts in this thread had been like this none of this would even have happened. This is by far more of a respectful two way discussion rather than simply responding with "oh but this is better" style responses and this to me is actually more of a more meaningful contribution to the thread as a whole and if this had been the start of thread I never would've posted anything that I did.Bro, I actually own a lot of those games! I even think a lot of those games are downright groundbreaking. I thought Phantom Hourglass was an incredible use of the stylus and was an apotheosis of the Nintendo DS. I thought Rune Factory was an amazing refresh of the series.
I only made my list since Vivi said we'd been having trouble naming more than half a dozen decent titles on the PSP. I think both systems have a long library of great games. And I'm sure we could find some more titles that you would like if we talked about Growlanser, or the Legend of Heroes games and maybe some in the Disgaea universe. All I'm saying is that none of my favorite DS games have reached the heights of titles like Peace Walker or Valkyria Chronicles. I would throw Tactics Ogre in there but I might get my head bitten off for being dismissive or mean or something. So when it comes to library of original titles, as I said, quoted above, I really think its subjective, if you think the best titles on one can really top the best titles on the other. But I take better design and functionality and the extensive list of a lot of the greatest games ever made as sealing the deal. But that's just for me.
I'll also agree with BoB that:
Pokemon is the flagship Nintendo handheld title, it's a huge reason for owning one, to me. But I actually had to stop playing Pokemon White because the remake of Heart Gold was so much more fun. The series has gotten into some serious trouble on the last handheld, and I've heard Black/White 2 is probably the biggest debacle yet. It's one of Nintendo's key strengths to handheld dominance, and it's in dire need of help right now.Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes.
So I'll just go back to my first post in this thread as my view on this.
I suppose, in regards to my first post, I should clarify that for me "pick-up-put-down" means more shorter game things such as Wario Ware/Mario Kart etc. For me when it comes to indepth games (such as RPGs) I'd rather start a fight over than come back to it frozen in time several hours/days (sometimes even weeks) later when I'm not in the groove in the anymore. Obviously such functionality has it's merits, but for me it's not a deal maker.(which is why I've owned and sold 4 PSPs in my time)
If this is deemed as a personal attack post then I'm sorry, it's not the intention behind it at all - But do as you will.
Last edited by Aulayna; 11-06-2012 at 06:28 PM.
Actually this is where I tend to agree with Bolivar, in terms of Franchises that are well known, for me, the DS is actually somewhat narrow. Off the top of my head, I can remember:
Mario
Pokemon
Professor Layton (YES!!!)
Dr Kawashima and his brain training stuff
Toon Link Zelda Series
Odd Metroid Game
Past that, I honestly can't really remember any other franchise. That's not necessarily bad, but it does restrain a system as to what games it can produce. Of course, I can counter myself by saying single, standalone games are by themselves amazing. Case in point? The world ends with you. So far, it's a single game but it is just epic and amazing.
In my opinion, for all I know what I've just said is utter tripe.
I agree - although I'd also add the Golden Sun games, the Phoenix Wright games and that Murder/Mystery/Horror series that's name is currently escaping me.
But - I do think (given it's hardware) that the developers took more creative risks on the DS than with the PSP. Though this doesn't always pay off - and some games (i.e. Kingdom Hearts) never really translate over very well (although saying that - I loved Dream Drop Distance). The PSP when franchises went to that I pretty much knew what to expect - a PSP version of the console game. Not bad by any means, but part of the charm of handheld gaming for me was finding experiences unique to handhelds (such as TWEWY) - Now I'm not saying that the PSP doesn't have these titles in it's repertoire, because it does, but for my personal tastes the DS has a more varied library.
I'm also glad to see franchises like Kid Icarus making a return on the 3DS.
I guess I grew up to become a bit of a "casual gamer" as I'm not looking for full fledged console experiences on the go.
Saying that all my handhelds are currently collecting dust right now and never really see much use outside of trips back to the UK or when I have to go to California (at which point the IFE usually gets more attention ><)
I completely missed out the Phoenix Wright Games! Hopefully the PS Vita can capture what the PSP for me failed to do, make great games with a great control scheme. The touchscreen function might actually make me want to purchase games for it. The reason I prefer the DS is, like you Aulayna, is that I am a casual gamer. If I do play games, it's a nice gentle game, unless I've got time off where I'll play a FF or another single player game. I never really got multiplayer.
I've owned 3 different PSPs quite some time ago and it was one of my favorite handhelds I've owned. I think the best part about the whole thing for me was the massive and up to date homebrew scene and the community that was involved with it. At one point great new apps and new findings were coming out on a daily basis for months. Installation of custom firmware to run homebrew material became extremely easy at one point (haven't followed the scene in a while so I don't know how it is with the Vita) and I helped many of my friends install it. The actual retail games were alright and there were a few great ones like Wipeout Pure, but I think the homebrew scene and the communities desire to fully unlock the potential of the PSP was the greatest aspect for me. Unfortunately, I no longer own any PSPs, but it would be nice to get one again.
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