Worst Character Ever?

[Forsaken Lover]

Wait, I've got my choice.

Everybody wants to whine about 3D FF characters like Tidus or whatever. Yeah, maybe Tidus was an irritating piece of crap but at least they were trying for something with him.

I present to you the most bland, stereotypical and awful character in FF history.

ROSA

In a game with a pretty cool cast overall, Rosa manages to be painfully generic. There is absolutely nothing memorable or interesting about her. I have no problem with the type of character she was. It's just that she did NOTHING to expand on that type of character. She was just a cheap, one-dimensional cutout.

And no, I don't care that this was "early." That doesn't excuse it. I can excuse them for the Moon reveal being a bit sloppy but there is no excuse for such horrible unoriginality.

I would say everyone from FFXIII was a better character than her. Hell, everyone from FFVIII was a better character than her. Yes, I said it.

[Skyblade]

I don't see anywhere where it indicates that Ramza thinks Delita is sociopath. From an outside point of view there is evidence that can be argued either way, and you could have the opinion that Ramza should have thought Delita was dangerous. But I don't think you can criticize him for not acting on opinions he didn't have.

Sure I can. Just like I can blame the entire cast of FFX for not noticing that Seymour is evil until it's directly pointed out to them. But at least they finally get around to doing something about it, while Ramza just lets a major villain (and obvious sociopath who hasn't cared about another human being since his sister died) take over the country.

If Tidus and company had never confronted Seymour, just gone on to kill Sin, and the game ended with Seymour marrying and killing Yuna, would anyone have accepted it? Heck, even if Tidus and Yuna got married instead, and ran off together on the airship while Seymour was left in charge of Spira as the only remaining maester of Yevon, would anyone have accepted that ending?

Yet that's exactly what Ramza does, and everyone still praises him as some big hero. Finish the job. Save the country, rescue the princess, kill (or at least stop) the bad guys. That's all a hero has to do. It's a simple job, and Ramza still smurfs it up.

You can't mostly save the world. It's an all or nothing thing. If you're going to give up halfway through, you might as well not even bother. You're certainly not going to be the hero in my book.

[maybee]

I have to defend Rosa here.

Rosa is not cliche or plain or dull. She is not your typical damsel in distress. Hell, how many times did Yuna and Rinoa need saving ? Spoony made a Yuna gets abducted counter for crying out loud.

Rosa is a strong character because her love for Cecil is strong. She was willing to cross dangerous paths and roads to make sure that Cecil was okay and she risked her own life because of it.

Because of her love for Cecil, she was willing to cross through dangerous places to try and make sure he was okay after the tragedy in the Mist village. That takes bravery, skill, and very strong love.

[Forsaken Lover]

Yes, she loved Cecil.

Now tell me another thing about her personality -soomething that has nothing to do with Cecil.

She was a stock love interest and nothing more. Her sole defining characteristic was she wanted to get into Cecil's pants. Even Rinoa had more characterization than that.

As for damsel in distress, I seem to recall a fever and also a trade with a crystal for her safety.

[Jinx]

Auron always seemed suspicious of Seymour.

And Rosa is the dullest.

[Forsaken Lover]

Auron: "Stay on your guard."
Tidus: "Why? This guy's just a priest, right?"
Auron: "Those with power use that power. Maesters have power."

Auron distrusts all of Yevon for obvious reasons. I don't think he fathomed the depths of Seymour's evil though.

[noshowmillk]

I want Zell and Exdeath to shut up! I actually like Exdeath but ZELL!

[Forsaken Lover]

Wait, I got another one.

People whine bout Snow and Hope and Vanille but what of the true festering pile of awfulness that XIII gave us...

Jihl Nabaat - The Final Fantasy Wiki has more Final Fantasy information than Cid could research

I mean, what the hell. XIII had three villains (I don't count Cid) and while none were great, Barthandalus had some vague presence when he was introduced and Yaag had a sort of personality.

Jihl though? When she's properly introduced she does nothing but recite the most hackneyed and unoriginal "I am evil" dialogue I've ever heard. It inspires nothing more or less than rolling your eyes and yawning widely.

God bless you XIII for doing one thing right and that one thing is dispatching of her in the most appropriate way.

[VeloZer0]

I think you kind of entirely missed the point of Delita in the story of FFT. Ivalice as it was could only be ruled by someone as unscrupulous and manipulative as Deltia. Even if Ramza killed Delita the person who succeed him would be just as bad. For Ramza to rise to a position where he was in a position to change anything he would have had to become an existence just like Delita, who you so despise.

[Gamblet]

I think you kind of entirely missed the point of Delita in the story of FFT. Ivalice as it was could only be ruled by someone as unscrupulous and manipulative as Deltia. Even if Ramza killed Delita the person who succeed him would be just as bad. For Ramza to rise to a position where he was in a position to change anything he would have had to become an existence just like Delita, who you so despise.

Exactly.

[maybee]

Yes, she loved Cecil.

Now tell me another thing about her personality -soomething that has nothing to do with Cecil.

She was a stock love interest and nothing more. Her sole defining characteristic was she wanted to get into Cecil's pants. Even Rinoa had more characterization than that.

As for damsel in distress, I seem to recall a fever and also a trade with a crystal for her safety.

She's like a older sister and friend to Rydia for one and she's still Kain's old friend. No, I disagree. Her sole purpose was to be a loving character, by showing kindness and support for Cecil and others.

She got the fever because she was willing to risk her own life in willing to make sure that Cecil and Kain are okay. That's pretty brave and selfless and showed that she really cared for the both of them. The crystal thing; she tried to protect Cecil who was injured. If she didn't, he could of died.


Rosa shows that there is nothing wrong with being nice.

[Skyblade]

I think you kind of entirely missed the point of Delita in the story of FFT. Ivalice as it was could only be ruled by someone as unscrupulous and manipulative as Deltia. Even if Ramza killed Delita the person who succeed him would be just as bad. For Ramza to rise to a position where he was in a position to change anything he would have had to become an existence just like Delita, who you so despise.

I don't think you quite understand my point. The lasting corruption is what makes Ramza's character entirely pointless. It makes Ramza little more than a mass murderer, because no end is achieved. You don't change anything, you don't fix anything. You just slaughter thousands of soldiers and turn the kingdom over to a new maniac. That's not accomplishing anything, except to kill a bunch of people.

There was someone who could have taken the throne and done well with it, Princess Ophelia. Or, heck, TG Cid could have done it (and the promotion of military leader to ruler is hardly unprecedented). There were countless characters who could have taken the throne and been good, solid rulers (Ramza not being one of them).

Is there lasting corruption that could come back to attack the new ruler? Possibly (though the thought of anyone taking TG Cid is kind of laughable). So, kill them too. That's kind of the point. If you're going to start a revolution, the point is to burn the corruption away and leave things in a state where a better system can form or grow. You leave someone good in charge and wipe out the corrupt groups conspiring against them.

Heck, it's one of the most basic stories in literature. The whole "save the princess" thing? Yeah, it usually leads to this. Look at Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Great examples of this same sort of thing. Ike grabs a single good person, and pushes her to the throne, literally slaughtering anyone who gets in the way. You mow down entire armies, and wipe out a kingdom, just to achieve that goal. Then, when she's in power with a loyal group or retainers supporting her, then you jolly well head off to do your own thing. Only, oh no, someone gets uppity and starts something again. Does Ike just say "to hell with it"? No, he gets right back up, kicks their butts, and leaves things running smoothly again.

The only reason "only a corrupt individual could rule Ivalice" is because people, including Ramza, believe that. Most of the major corrupt groups have been ended. Eliminate the warring Dukes, the church of Glabedos, and any other schemers with large power bases. Put Ophelia directly in charge as queen, and she'd bring the entire country to a new golden age. She's a strong enough individual on her own, but, more than that, she's not alone. She has plenty of strong supporters, who aren't corrupt, and wouldn't tolerate corruption.

You burn out the corruption, leave it no infrastructure with which to rebuild itself, and then put someone pure in charge, and give them the support to keep going. Corruption may eventually come back (it's almost inevitible), but it will take a long damn time, because the new corruption will have to build entirely new power structures and alliances before they become major players.

As it is, all Ramza succeeded in doing was killing a bunch of people, and then turning the kingdom over to a lunatic, saying "nope, this place is a write-off, to hell with it". No other hero, heck no other Final Fantasy character period, would do that.

[NinjaCoachZ]

Cait Freaking Sith.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think you kind of entirely missed the point of Delita in the story of FFT. Ivalice as it was could only be ruled by someone as unscrupulous and manipulative as Deltia. Even if Ramza killed Delita the person who succeed him would be just as bad. For Ramza to rise to a position where he was in a position to change anything he would have had to become an existence just like Delita, who you so despise.

I don't think you quite understand my point. The lasting corruption is what makes Ramza's character entirely pointless. It makes Ramza little more than a mass murderer, because no end is achieved. You don't change anything, you don't fix anything. You just slaughter thousands of soldiers and turn the kingdom over to a new maniac. That's not accomplishing anything, except to kill a bunch of people.

There was someone who could have taken the throne and done well with it, Princess Ophelia. Or, heck, TG Cid could have done it (and the promotion of military leader to ruler is hardly unprecedented). There were countless characters who could have taken the throne and been good, solid rulers (Ramza not being one of them).

Is there lasting corruption that could come back to attack the new ruler? Possibly (though the thought of anyone taking TG Cid is kind of laughable). So, kill them too. That's kind of the point. If you're going to start a revolution, the point is to burn the corruption away and leave things in a state where a better system can form or grow. You leave someone good in charge and wipe out the corrupt groups conspiring against them.

Heck, it's one of the most basic stories in literature. The whole "save the princess" thing? Yeah, it usually leads to this. Look at Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Great examples of this same sort of thing. Ike grabs a single good person, and pushes her to the throne, literally slaughtering anyone who gets in the way. You mow down entire armies, and wipe out a kingdom, just to achieve that goal. Then, when she's in power with a loyal group or retainers supporting her, then you jolly well head off to do your own thing. Only, oh no, someone gets uppity and starts something again. Does Ike just say "to hell with it"? No, he gets right back up, kicks their butts, and leaves things running smoothly again.

The only reason "only a corrupt individual could rule Ivalice" is because people, including Ramza, believe that. Most of the major corrupt groups have been ended. Eliminate the warring Dukes, the church of Glabedos, and any other schemers with large power bases. Put Ophelia directly in charge as queen, and she'd bring the entire country to a new golden age. She's a strong enough individual on her own, but, more than that, she's not alone. She has plenty of strong supporters, who aren't corrupt, and wouldn't tolerate corruption.

You burn out the corruption, leave it no infrastructure with which to rebuild itself, and then put someone pure in charge, and give them the support to keep going. Corruption may eventually come back (it's almost inevitible), but it will take a long damn time, because the new corruption will have to build entirely new power structures and alliances before they become major players.

As it is, all Ramza succeeded in doing was killing a bunch of people, and then turning the kingdom over to a lunatic, saying "nope, this place is a write-off, to hell with it". No other hero, heck no other Final Fantasy character period, would do that.

I actually feel you do miss the point, I understand you were hoping for the Ike/Fire Emblen kind of story but honestly, Tactics is set in a crapsack world whereas Fire Emblen tends to be overly idealistic (good guys are always righteous and always win) as opposed to Tactics Ogre/FFTactics insight into the conflict of idealism. The point of Delita and Ramza's story is to show the differences of achieving your goals and what it may lead to, Delita throws his scruples out the window and eventually rules Ivalice, but he's no longer happy and comes to the conclusion he became the very monsters he fought against after he kills Ovelia, the only person he still loves. Ramza stands by his ideals through thick and thin but it leaves him with his name, honor, and ability to live a normal life in shambles. He keeps his soul and he's happy that he stuck to them but most people would probably not want to take the path Ramza took since he largely saved Ivalice and was pretty much socially ostracized for doing it.

Another issue you miss is that Ramza is not privvy to what Delita is doing, he knows he's fighting the evil of Ivalce from the inside but he never actually witnesses the atrocities Delita commits (and technically Delita is still mostly wiping out corrupt and selfish people) so as far as Ramza is concerned, Delita is the just ruler Ivalice needs and in retrospect of the other people wanting the throne, Ivalice is better off with Delita. So you're selling Ramza short since he's largely unaware of how far Delita has gone towards the darkside, and as long as Ivalice is in a better place in his rule, why should Ramza feel Ivalice is in bad place? Ramza's perspective is not the player's perspective, so as far as Ramza is concerned Ivalice's corruption has been cleaned up for the most part, Delita is still a better person in charge than Larg, Goltana, or the Glabados Church.

Delita reunited the kingdom, broke the powerbase of the nobles, and his commoner background will endear him to the people. Just ending the war and letting Ivalice finally recoup from two disastrous wars is enough for most of the common people to love him, and considering he's referenced with adoration in Vagrant Story, he may have actually been a better ruler than you are giving him credit for. Hell some fans argue whether Ramza and Alma actually survived the final battle and feel the game's ending is largely symbolic as opposed to literal, with Olan actually just imagining seeing Ramza and Alma together cause he hoped they were happy wherever they were.

The point is that Ivalice's fate was never really what was important, it was watching two friends with the same goal taking different paths to achieve it and reaping what they sowed. To be honest, Ivalice's fate ultimately felt like the most likely thing that could have happened in that world and was largely the best option.

[Skyblade]

I'll have to play again to see just how much of Delita's activities Ramza is aware of (though, early on, the player only sees what Ramza sees of Delita, and I was still convinced he was a villain really early). And I won't do that until at least after I finish Persona 4, and if I can find a way to play without falling into the progression trap.

And I do admit that my view may be somewhat skewed by the way someone spoiled Delita's ending scene for me when I was only halfway through the story. I already thought he was a villain, but that scene absolutely enraged me. The first person in the story who agreed with me that he was a monster, and a character I liked, gets killed trying to stop him. Yeah, I basically quit playing then and only barely managed to squeak my way through the story over a couple of years. And more than anything else, that scene destroyed my love of this game, so it might have been the way I encountered it.


As to the world, though... Sure, it's a crapsack world. You can tell that by the way its color scheme inspired modern shooters (Ivalice was made of grey, brown, and spells in that game).

That doesn't excuse a hero not being heroic, though. FFX is a crapsack world ruled by corrupt, oppressive regime. The story is about the heroes overcoming that to save the world.

Evil only succeeds when good men do nothing.

Oh, and Ivalice's fate is too important. Ivalice is possibly the best world Square ever made. It doesn't deserve to be abandoned.