Brawl was on the Gamecube? I need to call my Gamestop cause they lied saying it was a Wii exclusive.Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Brawl was on the Gamecube? I need to call my Gamestop cause they lied saying it was a Wii exclusive.
Honestly, I think a lot of the top competitive games get that way simply because a lot of people play them and, over-time, analyzed each mechanic down to an understandable metagame. Counter-Strike is definitely like that; 90% of the weapons are absolutely never used in competitive play, and half of the rest only come out with really creative buying strategies.
My favorite is Smash Bros. 64 because it doesn't have the unpredictable randomness the other games have, when one good player beats another you can understand and appreciate exactly why it happened. There's nothing better than a room full of your closest friends screaming "oh trout" over and over at the same time.
I understand why Melee is a lot of people's favorites, and I enjoy the crap out of both sequels myself. I'm surprised Brawl is the highest one on your list, I thought most people felt it was the weakest. I thought it tried too hard to make every level dynamic and that took away from the competitiveness of it.
This is probably the first time I really, really completely and utterly disagree with the placement of a game. It's in my personal top 10 and probably even top 5.
Wrong. Well, it depends on the character, really. But melee has the potential to get much, much more technical than pretty much every other fighting game I've ever played with proper use of the right characters. Things such as waveshining and float-cancel allows for the possibility of advanced movements faster than a normal person's fingers are capable of inputs. On a basic level, it looks simple, but there is actually so many small little complex things and technical details that makes a world of a difference on a competitive level. The combos are also more "free". There are very few set combos that will always work in any situation, so you usually have to improvise depending on the positioning on the stage, the opponent's "directional influence" and such to do any decent combos, which means you have to make split-second decisions while comboing, rather than just sticking to a set combo you've got memorized. You know, on a purely technical level I doubt this would compare with most other fighting games. It’s unbalanced as all hell, and there is a huge element of Randomness regardless of game, unless of course you turn off Items. I am honestly stumped this is a game that is taken so seriously at a tournament level.
And even though other characters can't compare to Fox's speed and technical capacity, almost all other characters can still be just as fast and advanced as the characters in other competitive fighters that were actually designed with competition in mind.
As for the lack of balance, well... yes, melee is unbalanced when comparing top to bottom. However, there is no single character that dominates everything. In high-level competitive play, you still see at least 7 different characters being played... which is more than in some other fighters I've seen. The balance is bad, but not so ridiculous that you can't beat the best character with the worst as long as you're a better player. You do see enough variance, and a former best player in the world used a character that wasn't even considered to be among the top 5.
Finally... the reason the game is being taken seriously on a competitive level, is because it's a skill-based game when played with tournament rules, has an incredible amount of depth, a huge set of characters who are all very different yet can all be played well... and it is still just a whole lot more fun than most other fighters.It has a freedom of movement that few other fighters can offer, yet is in no way lacking behind when it comes to strategic and technical depth.
With the exception of items, pretty much everything in melee can be understood the same way. There are a few random factors on a few stages, but even the moving stages such as Rainbow Ride and Pokefloat are actually not random in the least, but perfectly predictable as long as you know the stage. Even the rising lava on that metroid stage has a specific time and pattern to it. Brawl is the only really random game in the series.
You know, I started checking into just what kind of characters could be found winning tournaments most often, started checking past winners from various tournaments, but then I found this in my search.This is probably the first time I really, really completely and utterly disagree with the placement of a game. It's in my personal top 10 and probably even top 5.
Wrong. Well, it depends on the character, really. But melee has the potential to get much, much more technical than pretty much every other fighting game I've ever played with proper use of the right characters. Things such as waveshining and float-cancel allows for the possibility of advanced movements faster than a normal person's fingers are capable of inputs. On a basic level, it looks simple, but there is actually so many small little complex things and technical details that makes a world of a difference on a competitive level. The combos are also more "free". There are very few set combos that will always work in any situation, so you usually have to improvise depending on the positioning on the stage, the opponent's "directional influence" and such to do any decent combos, which means you have to make split-second decisions while comboing, rather than just sticking to a set combo you've got memorized.You know, on a purely technical level I doubt this would compare with most other fighting games. It’s unbalanced as all hell, and there is a huge element of Randomness regardless of game, unless of course you turn off Items. I am honestly stumped this is a game that is taken so seriously at a tournament level.
And even though other characters can't compare to Fox's speed and technical capacity, almost all other characters can still be just as fast and advanced as the characters in other competitive fighters that were actually designed with competition in mind.
As for the lack of balance, well... yes, melee is unbalanced when comparing top to bottom. However, there is no single character that dominates everything. In high-level competitive play, you still see at least 7 different characters being played... which is more than in some other fighters I've seen. The balance is bad, but not so ridiculous that you can't beat the best character with the worst as long as you're a better player. You do see enough variance, and a former best player in the world used a character that wasn't even considered to be among the top 5.
Finally... the reason the game is being taken seriously on a competitive level, is because it's a skill-based game when played with tournament rules, has an incredible amount of depth, a huge set of characters who are all very different yet can all be played well... and it is still just a whole lot more fun than most other fighters.
With the exception of items, pretty much everything in melee can be understood the same way. There are a few random factors on a few stages, but even the moving stages such as Rainbow Ride and Pokefloat are actually not random in the least, but perfectly predictable as long as you know the stage. Even the rising lava on that metroid stage has a specific time and pattern to it. Brawl is the only really random game in the series.
Meta Knight: Banned From Super Smash Bros. Brawl - IGN
And I think my point was made.
Though to note, most people I was finding in the tournaments that get mentioned are almost exclusively people who used characters from the top 3 tiers, and every so often there was lower ranked person, but never from the bottom 2 or 3 tiers.
I definately agree though there is a lot of skill in SSB. Though I still don't think there is denying that the gaps between characters in these games is noticeably larger then a lot of other fighting games.
I also find it odd that it's competitive on the basis that competitive play see's no Item use, which was one of the core aspects of the game. I know people like playing without the items too, but it seems odd to me that one of the initial draws of the game has to go for competitive play.
Not really, considering I was talking about Melee, not Brawl. While Brawl tried to be more balanced, it ended up being the least balanced game really. And even so, Metaknight was actually unbanned again... and the world's two best Metaknights got beaten by a Zero-Suit player (ZSS is 12th ranked character) at Apex 2013, a game event where one of the world's largest Brawl tournaments were held. This ZSS player ended up winning the whole tournament too, without losing a single set.You know, I started checking into just what kind of characters could be found winning tournaments most often, started checking past winners from various tournaments, but then I found this in my search.
Meta Knight: Banned From Super Smash Bros. Brawl - IGN
And I think my point was made.
Though to note, most people I was finding in the tournaments that get mentioned are almost exclusively people who used characters from the top 3 tiers, and every so often there was lower ranked person, but never from the bottom 2 or 3 tiers.
I definately agree though there is a lot of skill in SSB. Though I still don't think there is denying that the gaps between characters in these games is noticeably larger then a lot of other fighting games.
I also find it odd that it's competitive on the basis that competitive play see's no Item use, which was one of the core aspects of the game. I know people like playing without the items too, but it seems odd to me that one of the initial draws of the game has to go for competitive play.
Back to melee... you rarely see low or bottom tiers make it all the way up, but as a matter of fact, they have seen top-level tournament play in recent days. Armada - the number 1 player who hasn't lost a single set to another european for 3 years and won every single large tournament he has gone to (including the biggest one in the US) in recent years, plays Young Link as his secondary and uses it as a Jigglypuff-counter. He has won grand finals with that young link. Last I checked, Young Link was 9th from the bottom. And the the most dominant player in the whole world uses him seriously. Armada also mains Peach, who is the 6th ranked character.
The american player Taj brought out MewTwo THE lowest tier character in the whole game against Armada's Peach in a winner's final, and while he lost, he managed to do a much better job with Mewtwo than he did with his Marth who is the 5th ranked character in the game. In fact, he even did manage to take one match from Armada with Mewtwo if my memory serves me right. He lost the set, but won one match with the bottom character against the best player in the world's main.
While the characters you see regulary on top in melee tournaments are the top 7, even 8 to 11 see frequent enough play to at least show up on pretty much every half-assed melee tournament you go to. And one of the better players in the world even mains Pikachu, who's 12th on the tier list.
...so yeah. I think your point was just proven false.
Perhaps the gap is still a little wider than in many other fighting games, but I have certainly seen other fighters with just about as bad balancing, while having less variety in characters and unique fighting styles available.
As for items, it might have been one of the intended appeals, but it was never what got me and many others to start playing the games. Even long before I got into tournament play, I used to just turn items off because they were random and annoying. And the random factor of items and utter lack of balance when it comes to some items is a very valid reason to not have them in tournaments. It would actually have been kinda ridiculous if items had been available in tournament play. So really... it makes perfect sense that items are turned off. I'm speaking for my self when I say this, but: melee is a lot more fun without items to begin with.
Last edited by Ultima Shadow; 02-10-2013 at 02:09 PM.
Not proven false, my point was that this was an odd game to end up being taken so seriously competively. You have proven nothing.
Really I don't think this game was meant to be taken seriously at all. It was a goofy mash up fighter game which happened because a creepy hand gave life to figurines to beat the trout out of each other, a game whose intent was a fun time fight between peoples favorite characters.
Somehow though, serious competition arose from it, and they put a lot more work into future balancing. (Still, the most balanced of them, Melee, still has a lot of balancing issues.)
Hell, certain stages in these games aren't even allowed for tournament fighting.
Since the first game, it's seems they have been trying hard to maintain a balance of the tournament loving crowd, and those who play it because of wacky shenanigans.
I was referring to the part where you linked to Meta's ban in Brawl and said it proved your point about lack of balance, plus the thing about bottom/low tiers never being used in top-level play.Not proven false, my point was that this was an odd game to end up being taken so seriously competively. You have proven nothing.
Of course it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. However, since it is a game that offers pretty much all you could ask from a serious competitive fighter (I'm only talking about Melee now), while at the same time being original and to many a lot more fun, then why not? It's really just about playing a game to your maximum capacity, trying as hard as possible to win and see who's the best. As long as all big random factors are eliminated, I wouldn't really think it strange for just about any multiplayer game to see competitive play.
It also seems like a lot of "casual" players believe that people who play Melee on a competitive level don't actually have as much fun. But that's really not the case. I find it much more fun to compete to the maximum in just about any game than playing with only half my attention and "trying a little". The game is taken seriously because enough people like the game, want to test their skills in it and want to play as good as they can possibly play. It's a different way of enjoying the game, but if I were to say which ones I think enjoy the game the most out of casual and tournament players, I'd absolutely say tournament players.
Yes, melee does have balancing issues. But like I said, low tiers and even the one and only rock-bottom character has seen serious high-level tournament play and gotten very far. And melee really isn't the only fighter where the top tiers are the most commonly used characters either.
The banning of stages isn't too strange, nor is it really an issue.
Also, Brawl felt like they were trying to push it away from competitive play completely and only towards the casual playing, considering how far they went just to eliminate all advanced tecniques and even added an obligatory random-factor that absolutely everyone - all casual players I've met too - hates: tripping.
Last edited by Ultima Shadow; 02-10-2013 at 07:12 PM.
Meta was brought up on the basis that the same things that made it strange to go competative still exist within the game, even after it's given a competitive focus.
I think it's odd, because you would imagine that balance would be very important for the tournament scene. The more unbalanced a game, the less likely common sense dictates a game would go that far.
Meta-Knights temporary banning shows that this game is far from fixing this problem.
Mind you, I have never said the game shouldn't be, or that it couldn't effectively be, played at a tournament level. Just that this game started off an unlikely canidate for it, and still has a lot of the elements that made it an unlikely candidate.
And I still say the Random Items made it an odd choice, on the basis that's the way the game was meant to be played, yet to play competitively you must eliminate that factor entirely. That almost feels like saying that you can play a game like Bloody Roar competitively, but you can't use your beast mode. (No Idea if that game ever had much a competitive scene mind you.
Balance is important. And there is enough balance among the top 7 characters that they all see almost equal amount of play, are played by an equal amount of good players and perform almost equally well on average. Yes, that's not even half of the cast, but 7 characters are still more than the amount of different characters I saw being played last time I went to a BlazBlue tournament. And the gap between these 7 most played and the next 5 characters on the tier list isn't all that big either. It's really just that less people play those characters, but there are still top-players who use them well and beat equally well-played top-tier characters with them. So, I really wouldn't say there is a big balance issue that far to be honest. At least 12 characters are certainly "available" at even the top-level. You only really see an issue when comparing top to bottom, yet even then there are weird cases of certain bottom/low characters doing well against high/top characters simply because their moves and style give a kind of coverage that just so happens to be very effective against certain top-level characters. Young Link vs Jigglypuff is a good such example. Jiggly is much better overall, but still struggles against Young Link because of how Young Link works.Meta was brought up on the basis that the same things that made it strange to go competative still exist within the game, even after it's given a competitive focus.
I think it's odd, because you would imagine that balance would be very important for the tournament scene. The more unbalanced a game, the less likely common sense dictates a game would go that far.
Meta-Knights temporary banning shows that this game is far from fixing this problem.
Mind you, I have never said the game shouldn't be, or that it couldn't effectively be, played at a tournament level. Just that this game started off an unlikely canidate for it, and still has a lot of the elements that made it an unlikely candidate.
And I still say the Random Items made it an odd choice, on the basis that's the way the game was meant to be played, yet to play competitively you must eliminate that factor entirely. That almost feels like saying that you can play a game like Bloody Roar competitively, but you can't use your beast mode. (No Idea if that game ever had much a competitive scene mind you.
...and also, I have beaten quite a few equally good players with my Pichu. Just saying.
And well, Meta is still a Brawl character, and his temporary banning doesn't really say anything about Melee.
And yes, it did start off a bit unlikely, since it wasn't designed with any kind of competition in mind. However, I personally don't find it strange in the least that it is being played on a serious level.
Last edited by Ultima Shadow; 02-11-2013 at 11:52 AM. Reason: forgot to add the word "issue". :p
Wow, EoFF too? I'm beyond sick of people raving about Melee's epicness and awesome competitive scene and how it's the best Smash Bros. game. I get enough of that looking at the SSB4 boards on GameFAQs trying to look for news and updates on the game.
...well Ultima Shadow, at least you're not being too extreme on the Brawl hating side of it at least (glares at GameFAQs), and I'm glad to see NeoCracker praising Brawl rather than saying it's the worst Smash Bros. game (and kudos to you for saying it's the best, rather than calling it the worst because it's not as competitive).
Also Bolivar, the group that complains about Brawl are a vocal minority (emphasis on the vocal), and it's still considered to be one of the greatest Wii games by many people. It sold 10 million copies worldwide (~3 million more than Melee).
Anyways, what really bothers me about the Melee praise is how much people overlook just how flawed and glitched the game is, and how much they complain about Brawl for fixing the glitches and exploits. I mean, people actually expected wavedashing to return? The sad part is that people are so attached to Melee that they've hacked Brawl to resemble Melee from the character menu select, all the glitches and exploits including wavedashing, making ledge grabbing harder (and no longer possible to do when facing the opposite direction of the ledge), and even getting rid of Falco and Ganondorf's changes that were implemented to declone them. These people are way too obsessed with Melee and hardly gave Brawl a fair chance. Worst of all is that they think SSB4 is magically going to fix all the "problems" Brawl had. Sakurai said himself that he'd never make another Smash Bros. game that required as much reflexes and focus as Melee (which I'm glad of, since Melee was pretty much the odd one out because it was so fast and characters fell like rocks) and I'm highly doubtful he'd bring back wavedashing and L-cancelling. Sakurai said the above in a Nintendo Everything article.
I'll pull off some things I said to MTKO about why I think the Brawl hate is unjustified:
Also, Melee was ridiculously glitched. Many of the "advanced techniques" were nothing more than glitches and exploits: wavedashing, shine combos, L-Cancelling, yet people complain that Brawl removed them and call it "less competitive." And then there were the characters (Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Falco, Young Link, Pichu, and Roy, and they practically share all move animations with their originals.) and stages (Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Dream Land, Yoshi's Island 64, and Fountain of Dreams all use the 1 giant platform and 3 smaller platform layout) that were just riddled with clones. The AI in Melee is just sad: characters doing nothing but jabs, Ganondorf doing nothing but Dark Dive 80% of the time, Luigi never using the Super Jump Punch to recover.Smash Bros. was never meant to be a competitive fighter, and to hate on Brawl because it isn't competitive and it's too simplified is quite unfair. Given elements like all stages having hazards in the original 64 versions (yeah, Dreamland's wind wasn't too bad, but that doesn't make it a completely neutral stage), items always showing up in most single player modes with no option to turn them off, and random factors in attacks like Luigi's Green Missile and Mr. Game & Watch's Judge, it shows that the randomness in Smash Bros is supposed to be a defining feature of the games.
Also, Smash Bros was always supposed to be a simple and easy fighting game for everyone to be able to learn easily, hence why all regular moves are done with one button rather than having two kick and punch buttons and special moves are done from one button rather than having inputs like down forward punch or back forward kick. I know what you're talking about with the changes made in Brawl, especially the highly reduced hitstun making combos harder to do. But in a game series where most people will be doing free for alls and not one on ones, reduced hitstun is pretty much necessary to make sure that someone doesn't get constantly juggled and comboed by other players, and that they have a fair chance of getting out of combos.
Sure, the gameplay of Brawl may have deteriorated to you, but many of those changes were implemented to give everyone a more balanced playing field, rather than favouring the highly skilled ones while leaving the less skilled in the dust. People can play Smash Bros. competitively if they want, but they should really keep in mind that it wasn't designed for that kind of play in the first place. That's why I find all the Brawl hate annoying, since many people hate it for not being as competitive when Smash Bros. wasn't meant to be competitive in the first place.
As for the balance, of course every game will be unbalanced in the competitive scene, but Melee is the worst balanced in casual and single player. At least Brawl Ganondorf and 64 Samus could do proficiently in Classic Mode on harder difficulties. Melee Bowser, Kirby, and Pichu? You get slaughtered and you can barely do any damage without taking a heavy beating first. Also, practically every casual player knows in Melee that Pichu and Kirby are ridiculously weak. But not many casual people that play Brawl or 64 would tell you that Ganondorf or Samus is weak.
I guess I'll try to wrap it up. I'm not saying that Melee is a bad game (though I'm tempted to after seeing all the nostalgia-driven savage Melee fanboys on GameFAQs and other sites), but people should really stop worshipping it and saying Brawl is a bad game just because it isn't Melee. Complaints about Brawl from Melee fanboys are just ridiculous (even ranging from "Brawl even did the menu layouts worse than Melee" and "Melee's Adventure Mode was better" when it was just a poorly veiled attempted at making a second Classic mode and calling it an "All New Adventure Mode"). I know I'm being harsh towards Melee (though compared to how harsh Melee fanboys are towards Brawl, I'm practically being a Melee fanboy myself), but people should really stop praising Melee and bashing Brawl as if it was the sole existance of their life.
I would continue this argument Shads, but then we are going to start getting into some odd arguments that are more about the communties that play these games rather then the games themselves, so I'll bow out of the discussion for now.
HOwever, one note I will make....
The Idea that a low tier, by happen chance of moveset alone, can more easily beat ONE higher tier character is the worst example you could possibly have given about whether a game is balanced or not. ;p
And this other bit is to Evastio. There is a huge competitive smash bro's scene, and Nintendo knows that. I really can't bring myself to be irritated with them for being upset that future installments were actually made to be less competitive. Considering how huge that scene got, it makes perfect sense I think that so much hate would be involved, and were I more into that aspect of the game I'd probably find myself irritated at Brawl as well.
Conveniently though I am not a tournament player, so it ends up mattering little to me.
Anyway, bit late in doing this, but on to the next set!
79. Terranigma
Terrinigma gets onto this list almost through the shear force of it's concept. You are basically tasked with restoring the world to it's proper state, for lack of better word, and that involves slowly transforming the world you see around you into the world more like the real one. This comes with a lot of fun and unique things to see in the world.
It also comes with a well made combat system with a fair amount of variety. Saddly though, it's nothing very original in that regard, and had it something more then a wonderful concept pushing it forward it could have ended up higher on the list. But hey, it also really had nothing wrong with it either, so it doesn't end up lower.
78. Borderlands
I actually didn't like this game the first time I played it. I ended up not caring about what was going on around me and didn't really see a point in continuing forward with the plot. Though the second time I picked it up, with a different friend, it ended up being a lot of fun. The story was pretty lack luster, though there were a couple of great characters.
What got fun though was the loot and wank. Not since Diablo 2 had playing for the sake of aquiring newer and nuttier weapons been so fun. And really, that's most of this games appeal for me, other then a fun art direction. Solid Mechanics and acquiring nutty Items. This may sound superficial, and were I to redo this list, it's another that would probably have ended up a couple places lower, but hey, great times anyway.
Evastio, I salute you for sticking up for Brawl; I don't dislike the game by any means and certainly not for the reasons the competitive scene gives. I've had a tun of fun playing it, again, the only real issue I have is that every level has to change on you, in a much bigger way than the windblowing of some of the N64 levels.
Can't say much on the latest entries except I'm still bewildered at how many games are coming before FFVII on this list...
I'm more appalled that Bloody Roar and Smash Bros were ranked higher than Street Fighter II
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
Reaction.
In any case, I will admit that melee is a bit unbalanced overall, more so than many other fighting games. However, it is by no means so unbalanced that it's impossible to play with a very, very wide variety of characters at the top-level and still do well. In short, it's unbalanced but not as unbalanced as many seem to think. It's balanced enough for competitive play to see more different characters than many other fighting games do. I can't even really remember what else we argued about and I'm too lazy to go back and look, so let's just leave it at that.
And Evastio:
I don't hate Brawl, I just personally think it is inferior to Melee. Aside from the glitches that I won't deny that I have indeed become fond of, I just think Brawl feels less smooth and more chunky in general. I love the melee physics and they make me feel like I can control the character exactly like I want, but when I play Brawl it feels more like I'm just controlling a big, fat block with the weight of a marshmallow. Plus the tripping. It's just my personal preference, but while I can still enjoy playing Brawl, the physics do annoy me and Melee feels much more natural to me. Even if I had never played Melee as a tournament player, I would still have liked melee more. And I'm not really annoyed with the removal of the glitch techniques, since it makes perfect sense they would be removed in the next installment. What does annoy me, however, is when they add things that seriously really only exist to prevent competitive play. Tripping. I have yet to meet a single casual player who has liked this feature. All the features such as less hitstun and repeated airdodges at least fill a function - it creates a different kind of gameplay experience. But tripping adds nothing. It only really exists to add a 100% obligatory random factor that no one even enjoys (not a single person I've ever met at least).
Tripping aside, I can enjoy and have enjoyed Brawl though. I just personally think it has less things that I would desire in a game and so I simply enjoy it to a much less extent.
Don't see a problem with saying a game is awesome and epic and the best in its series. It's an opinion.
If you are referring to Project M, which is what I assume, then there is absolutely nothing "sad" about it whatsoever. No more sad than the amazing mods being made for other games. Project M gives Brawl the physics that many - the makers of Project M included - prefer. And while I admit that wavedashing and l-cancelling are glitches, they are not "flaws" in the eyes of those who use them. To me, and many others, they only add to the overall gameplay experience and makes melee/Project M feel even more "free". Futhermore, project M is much more balanced than any of the actual smash games. Even on a casual level - and yes, Project M can without doubt be enjoyed casually too. Finally, Ganon at least do keep some of his Brawl features. Like his side B is still the Brawl version. Plus the "cloning" isn't an actual problem to begin with. The moves look alike, but the characters still function very differently. The only case I really see as bad cloning is Mario and Dr. Mario. They are the only ones that got a bit too much in common, really. In any case, I'm pretty sure the people behind Project M gave Brawl a fair enough chance, but in the end it just wasn't the game for them. I gave Brawl a fair chance too. I've played it for countless hours, had fun with it. But in the end, I was never able to enjoy it anywhere near as much as I enjoy Melee.
I would probably have agreed, if it wasn't because of Metaknight. I've seen matches between casual players where one of them picks Metaknight and does nothing but B (tornado) spam until the opponent is in KO-range. And if the opponent is playing a bigger, slower character then there is basically nothing they can do. It's possibly the most spam-friendly move that casual play has ever seen, only slightly rivaled by Marth's f-smash. Aside from that, Brawl might be a bit more balanced to most casual players. But from what I've seen, Metaknight is possibly even more unbalanced in casual than competitive if someone decides to tornado-spam, since there are so few options to counter it unless you have the knowledge about it that mostly tournament players would have.As for the balance, of course every game will be unbalanced in the competitive scene, but Melee is the worst balanced in casual and single player.
Finally, one last thing that isn't directed at you or your post. Just something I'm saying: Smash was never meant to see serious competition. But things taking different turns than what was originally intended are not always bad things. And in the case of Melee, I'm personally very, very glad that a competitive scene was created for it.
Last edited by Ultima Shadow; 02-13-2013 at 08:12 PM.
Other things ranked higher then Street Fighter 2
77. Soul Calibur II (PS2/XBox/Gamecube)
The first of a set of games that may get Wolf Foaming at the mouth is none other then Soul Calibur 2. Having one of the better fighting game story lines (Which, saddly, isn’t really saying to much.
76. Tekken 5 (PS2)
75. Tekken 3/6 (PS3/360)
Someone is going to lynch me for placing Tekken over Soul Calirbur (As well as all the other fighters it beats out). But I love these games for thier visual flare. I usually prefer the unarmed styles to armed, so from a visual percpective the Tekken series outweights a lot of other fighters for me.
In addition, past it’s horrible presentation, the story told throughout the Tekken Game’s isn’t all that bad. I’d argue it’s pretty decent even! Saddly you sometimes have to wait until the next game in the series to get a confirmation of what exactly happened given each character has his own ending.
Speaking of endings, Tekken’s character endings I find much more enjoyable on a whole then Soul Caliburs, which adds a lot to Single Player experience for me. I mean hell, who didn’t love watching Bryan Fury rip off the Tank’s gun in Tekken 3? That was just glorious. So for superior story and visual appeal, Tekken wins out as my favorite 3D fighter.
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