Should I Play Chrono Trigger First?

[NeoCracker]

[QUOTE=Skyblade;3193895]

I'm with Wolf here. I think a fair amount of Cross is better knowing the story behind Trigger.

And I think Trigger is the better game anyway, though both are fun and worth playing.

Explain: (SPOILER)How did Dalton possibly build a tiny town into a military force capable of taking over Guardia in five years? Especially given that Crono, Lucca, and Nadia are each capable of destroying Lavos on their own, and Dalton is the most pathetic boss/leader in the game?

If you can't explain that, how can you possibly come to terms with any of the other nonsensical references that twist and distort what Chrono Trigger gave us?

(SPOILER)
1. He had access to both the magic of the past and the technology of the future. This is a huge advantage.
2. We know nothing of his actual plans to win past that.
3. Fighting one thing is a different beast entirely then fighting off armies. It's not so bad considering he could have tried a war of attrition.
4. Don't forget he had the assistance of Lynx and Harle during this time, it was hardly just Dalton. An agent of Fate and one of the worlds Dragons are a bit of a scale tipper.

Your move Skyblade. ;P

(SPOILER)1. He fell through a time gate with nothing but the clothes on his back. He had access to his own magic, which is completely pitiful and only does anything when he manages to get your party with a "look over there" move. He had access to zero technology and magic outside of that, and he had little brains, having stolen the Blackbird and the Epoch, rather than developed anything himself.
2. Golems. That's about it.
3. Except... You face armies. You wipe the floor with Magus's army, remember? Or what about the Robot armies in the future? You know, the ones about seven times more powerful than Dalton's cronies, yet you can still annihilate with a single spell?
4. Both being inferior in power to Lavos, and therefore not enough of a balance tipper to upset anything.

(SPOILER)
1. He could view the different time periods, which is how he found out about you. It's not to much of a stretch to assume he could have used this chance to grap who knows what from the future. Remember, in Cross they did have Robots to fight with.

2. It's vague what exactly Dalton was able to do in this time rift he was it. It's presumptious to assume ONLY him and his magic was available.

3. As the rulers of Guardia, Chrono and Marle weren't likely on the front lines. Their advantage here is also kind of reduced by, I don't know, Dalton and Lynx's tendancy to not fight fair? We saw lynx's infiltration of Viper manor in Chrono Cross, and you must realize he fights dirty.

4. In context of the story, Lavos isn't beaten in a one on one fight. It's 3 of your people that do it. If we assume Frog was there at the time as well, it's a matter of isolation. Getting them picked off one at a time. Considering the strength of Harle and Lynx, and again the removal of fair fighting, more then conceivable this becomes possible.

5. Also, Dalton knows the kind of Magic Chrono, Marle, and Frog are all capable of. He also has the advantage in preparing for that, something Lavos had no way of doing. ;P

6. Finally, you are assuming Chrono, Marle, and frog were all still Full bore, and ready to handle the enemies when the fight started.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there should be more explanation. The biggest problem here is not the lack of plausability of this happening, it's the lack of details given. There are several different things that could have caused this to happen, its simply the fact we aren't told what it was that creates problems. Theres to many way open wholes in their explination to give any real clue as to how it happens.

I'm simply saying that while this was a pretty poor way to explain the events with the two games, but it hardly creates some giant mess of nonsense.

[Greatermaximus]

Who are you?
Have you played it before?
Did you not have time to play it at all?
You might want to play the first game to understand some plots behind the second game. Though it's up to the author to determine what order a universe plays out.

Chrono Trigger grabbed onto me better even if I dismissed it in it's sequel. People into graphics might enjoy Chrono Cross better because it was made in the future of the original obviously.

[Skyblade]

[QUOTE=NeoCracker;3193971]

I'm with Wolf here. I think a fair amount of Cross is better knowing the story behind Trigger.

And I think Trigger is the better game anyway, though both are fun and worth playing.

Explain: (SPOILER)How did Dalton possibly build a tiny town into a military force capable of taking over Guardia in five years? Especially given that Crono, Lucca, and Nadia are each capable of destroying Lavos on their own, and Dalton is the most pathetic boss/leader in the game?

If you can't explain that, how can you possibly come to terms with any of the other nonsensical references that twist and distort what Chrono Trigger gave us?

(SPOILER)
1. He had access to both the magic of the past and the technology of the future. This is a huge advantage.
2. We know nothing of his actual plans to win past that.
3. Fighting one thing is a different beast entirely then fighting off armies. It's not so bad considering he could have tried a war of attrition.
4. Don't forget he had the assistance of Lynx and Harle during this time, it was hardly just Dalton. An agent of Fate and one of the worlds Dragons are a bit of a scale tipper.

Your move Skyblade. ;P

(SPOILER)1. He fell through a time gate with nothing but the clothes on his back. He had access to his own magic, which is completely pitiful and only does anything when he manages to get your party with a "look over there" move. He had access to zero technology and magic outside of that, and he had little brains, having stolen the Blackbird and the Epoch, rather than developed anything himself.
2. Golems. That's about it.
3. Except... You face armies. You wipe the floor with Magus's army, remember? Or what about the Robot armies in the future? You know, the ones about seven times more powerful than Dalton's cronies, yet you can still annihilate with a single spell?
4. Both being inferior in power to Lavos, and therefore not enough of a balance tipper to upset anything.

(SPOILER)
1. He could view the different time periods, which is how he found out about you. It's not to much of a stretch to assume he could have used this chance to grap who knows what from the future. Remember, in Cross they did have Robots to fight with.

2. It's vague what exactly Dalton was able to do in this time rift he was it. It's presumptious to assume ONLY him and his magic was available.

3. As the rulers of Guardia, Chrono and Marle weren't likely on the front lines. Their advantage here is also kind of reduced by, I don't know, Dalton and Lynx's tendancy to not fight fair? We saw lynx's infiltration of Viper manor in Chrono Cross, and you must realize he fights dirty.

4. In context of the story, Lavos isn't beaten in a one on one fight. It's 3 of your people that do it. If we assume Frog was there at the time as well, it's a matter of isolation. Getting them picked off one at a time. Considering the strength of Harle and Lynx, and again the removal of fair fighting, more then conceivable this becomes possible.

5. Also, Dalton knows the kind of Magic Chrono, Marle, and Frog are all capable of. He also has the advantage in preparing for that, something Lavos had no way of doing. ;P

6. Finally, you are assuming Chrono, Marle, and frog were all still Full bore, and ready to handle the enemies when the fight started.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there should be more explanation. The biggest problem here is not the lack of plausability of this happening, it's the lack of details given. There are several different things that could have caused this to happen, its simply the fact we aren't told what it was that creates problems. Theres to many way open wholes in their explination to give any real clue as to how it happens.

I'm simply saying that while this was a pretty poor way to explain the events with the two games, but it hardly creates some giant mess of nonsense.

That's my point, though. Not that it's a complete wreck, but that it handles things so poorly that it weakens itself. It doesn't build off Chrono Trigger. It references it. It wants you to know that it's in the same continuity. But it doesn't work with that continuity.

(SPOILER)Granted, my attacks on that setup are an extreme end, but look at what we have to work with. Dalton was comic relief, for pretty much the entire game. He's at his best early on, but even then, he's completely overshadowed by Queen Zeal, the Prophet, and Schala. He's introduced as a henchmen, starts one decent boss fight, and that's it.

From then on, he's nothing but comedy. He commands some of the most pathetic forces in the game. His big showdowns are played for laughs. He is outright shown to be ineffectual against the heroes. He cracks the fourth wall, summons the most hilarious non-fight in the game, and gets the Chrono Trigger equivalent of Palmer getting hit by a truck. He's the equivalent of Gilgamesh, Ultros, Palmer, Biggs & Wedge, heck, he's LeBlanc from X-2.

You can't just change a character like that into a credible threat without explanation. And Chrono Cross explains none of its connections to Chrono Trigger. They're just there, and you have to live with them.

For that matter, what does it do to help the story? How does it serve the narrative at all? The kingdom and setting are largely unimportant. The locations are so radically different that they hold no connection to Chrono Trigger in the first place. The only reason I can see for it is something they can use to explain the absence of the major characters from Chrono Trigger ((SPOILER)And didn't they hurt those characters enough by basically making the entire journey in Chrono Trigger hurt the entire spacetime continuum?). If the game had opened up, and we were told that Guardia ruled instead of Porre, would it change anything? Set it long enough ahead that our beloved king dies and explain that his kid (or grankid) is a dictatorial jerk. Would it change the story massively? It's not like it needed the close connection to the events of Chrono Trigger. The game's about bloody time travel, you can set it whenever you dang well please.

And, yes, I do assume that everyone's still near full power. It was only five years. That's not a long time. Make it forty or something and you might have an excuse. But five? That's pretty much the least opportune time. It's enough time to settle everyone into their new roles, so there's no organizational trouble to handle, yet nowhere near enough time for the characters to weaken to the point of complete incompetence.

Why do the connections to Chrono Trigger exist? Why do they introduce them if they're not going to use them? What purpose do they serve, except to connect Chrono Cross to a game that is nearly entirely separate? It doesn't work its way up from Chrono Trigger, it works a different world with different rules and different characters and smashes it into Chrono Trigger with an audible "clunk".

It should have picked a direction. A new game with its own setting, a spin off in the same "universe", but with basically no other ties, or an actual sequel that builds off what came before, and it doesn't. And that is the fatal flaw that drags down the entire game. It doesn't know how to handle its connection with its predecessor, and it shows.

[NeoCracker]

List of things that could cause a person to lose strength over the course of 5 years.
1) Disease
2) Poison
3) Not actively fighting (Only a year of this would be enough to make a visable difference.)
4) Slipping on a bananna peal and breaking a leg.

Reasons someone weaker may have beaten Chrono?
1) Poison
2) Being forced to protect those around you, who are serving as only a hinderance.
3) Sneak attacks.

...And the connections to Chrono Trigger exist because the entirety of everything that happens in this game is directly the result of the end of Chrono Trigger. Really the only problem comes in the lack of explanation about Guardia. I think even the past people were used very well.

(SPOILER)
Kid was keeping watch over, and protecting, Kid/Schala.
A large part of what ran FATE was Robo, The Prometheous Unit.

Harle, one of the dragons and in sense, a portion of Lavos/Time Devourer, took measures to handle Chrono and Marle before they could intervene in the plans.

I'll leave it at that.

[Greatermaximus]

It can't be all things to all people. Even us today and me.

When I was a kid I loved the wonder about the game. I was drawn into it.

Now that I'm older and wiser I couldn't care less about some of the sub-plots and details that leads to the ultimate ending based on what the creators plan for us at some point.

[NeoCracker]

One last thing that just crossed my mind, and probably the single biggest factor in this.

(SPOILER)Fate. Fate can, to an extent at the very least, have direct influence on the events of the world. Remember, Serge is the only exception to this. As far as I know, Crono may not have a way personally to counter act Fates meddling.

[Freya]

Play chrono trigger first because it's fun! Well they both are but play it for the fun! Not for any reason other than that ^_^

[Del Murder]

Hopefully FL has stopped posting in this thread because he's too busy playing Chrono Trigger.

[Forsaken Lover]

Actually i'm holding off on either CT or CC because I'm starting to watch Evangelion for the first time.

[Del Murder]

You have chosen...poorly.

[DownDiagonalLeftA]

You have chosen...poorly.

SO poorly.

[Jowy]

Actually i'm holding off on either CT or CC because I'm starting to watch Evangelion for the first time.

I hope you at least have access to End of Evangelion because episodes twenty-five and twenty-six are godawful. Unlike Chrono Trigger, which is just great all around.

[Forsaken Lover]

Yep, I have it. I got it almost a year ago which is why I realized that maybe it's time I finally watch NGE.

And you Indiana Jones guys should remember Evangelion is only 26 episodes long.
I can watch that in a couple days. I could still start Chrono this week. I don't know if I will but I'll definitely pick it up sometime this month.

[maybee]

Play Chrono Trigger. Don't play Chrono Cross. It will just make you cry.... not in the " Oh Aeris just died " sad the " Oh god, why are they doing this to my favourite characters from CT " sad....

[Polnareff]

Actually i'm holding off on either CT or CC because I'm starting to watch Evangelion for the first time.

You did right, buddy. I will never understand the hype for CT, and this is from a guy who played it about a year after it first came out.