I'd actually argue that the US has quite a few damn talented voice actors now. Back in 2000 with the english dub of Cowboy Bebop we got quite a few really talented voice actors, may favorite of which being Stephen Blum. Not to forget Crispin Freeman and Liam O'Brian.
We may not be up to par with how seriously Japan takes it, but we still have a pretty damn good Talent pool to draw from these days.
Nope, you can think what you want. Doesn't really affect me if you agree or disagree.Originally Posted by chionos
Sorry, if I wanted to replay to Aulayna's comments, and make sure she understood what I meant. She even replied back and I completely understand her (well made)points- feel free to skip them if you are uninterested in them.
I didn't say they were.
Right- his personality was different, which is what I said. Did you read it?
Right, I don't get to do that anymore. So I am disappointed when a character says something that I think is "out of character". Not sure how you you are missing this.
I didn't say voice acting changed the way I used a character- did you read what I wrote?
And I didn't say it was JUST the result of our expectations- I don't think you read what I wrote.
I'm sorry we're having trouble communicating here rydrum, because I did read your initial post, and I stand by my interpretation of it.
Perhaps, if multiple people are misunderstanding you, the fault lies not with them, but with the way you're articulating your points?
You implied the connection between books-into-films and voice acting by mentioning them together several times. In the same paragraph. Thus creating an analogy. Analogies are meant to show how one thing is like another thing. Perhaps that was an accident?
Maybe I'm not making myself clear, either.
When you say, "I am disappointed when a character says something that I think is 'out of character'," I'm not getting how this is connected to the voice acting in particular. To me, that's a script problem. That happens even in books, where there are no voices or images to otherwise cloud the audience's perception.
You are welcome to interpret it how you want, that is independent of what was actually there. What you claimed I said, and what I said were different.
Nope, a book into a film is mentioned 1 time. It was an example of what I was discussing (my surprise at how I expected a character to be based on past experiences and how they are in the new form). That is the only comparison made with books into films.
Yes, it could be a function of the script (never said it wasn't) and/or it could be a function of the way the line was voiced. And did I say it was a problem exclusively of voice acted video games?
I find them far more enjoyable with voice acting.
The only reason the older titles didn't have it was because of technical limitations.
Oh, and I tried your experiment. It's just as endearingly awkward with the text and without the voice. Still more enjoyable with the voices though.
X's voice acting had it's moments that were...less than stellar, but for it's time it was a lot better than most other games at the time, and by today's standards, it's still not terrible. If you'd like to hear some truly bad voice acting, just look up any of the Dynasty Warriors games from the PS2 era, or Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom for this generation.
XIII and XIII-2 both have fantastic voice acting. There's just moments where the dialog could have been better written. :P
I like Kung-Fu.
thanks for trying it!
Certainly implied it, by titling the thread "why voice acting has lessened my joy..." and not "why voice acting and changes to characters' personalities in general has lessened my joy..."Yes, it could be a function of the script (never said it wasn't) and/or it could be a function of the way the line was voiced. And did I say it was a problem exclusively of voice acted video games?
Listen, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. Not everything someone says by way of responding to a thread topic is a direct assault on the op. You don't have to preface everything you say to me with "I never said that." I know what you said. I've reread what you wrote several times just in case I missed something. I thought this was a thread about voice acting, but when I try to defend voice acting you say you aren't talking about voice acting.What's the actual topic here?
I'm going to try to break this down so we can figure out why I'm confused.
You say voice acting has kept RPGs from achieving their goal of creating an immersive experience.
You use Cloud in AC as an example.
I say Cloud in AC had nothing to do with voice acting.
You say you never said that.
So the Cloud example has nothing to do with voice acting directly, but is instead a parallel example of how changes to a character can be detrimental to a fan's enjoyment of said character, because expectations are shattered. Yes?
So what's an example of voice acting itself not meeting expectations? Cloud doesn't answer that, nor does Tidus. Perhaps we're (I'm) getting hung up on the word "expectations?"
If so, all I'm left with from this is that voice acting is bad because the designers should allow the audience to voice the characters in their own heads, based on a few (precious few) examples of bad voice acting. And yeah, as Bleys said, some voice acting is just bad, even if that's the way the designers scripted and directed it. Tidus' laugh isn't bad because it's voice acted. It isn't bad because my expectations at that moment were not met. It's bad because the director and actor failed.
Early attempts at special affects in movies could be viewed the same way. Special effects in movies are so bad sometimes that they wrench the audience out of the movie, effectively taking away their ability to suspend disbelief. When they're not executed perfectly they take away from the film's immersion factor. But does that mean movies shouldn't have special effects? No, it means the people creating the special effects need to do a better job.
Video games are the ultimate entertainment medium, in that they are a visual, aural, and even tactile experience (and if they ever actually perfect the scent boxes...). Fully voiced characters are, and should be, part of that experience.
Last response from me,Listen, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. Not everything someone says by way of responding to a thread topic is a direct assault on the op. You don't have to preface everything you say to me with "I never said that." I know what you said. I've reread what you wrote several times just in case I missed something. I thought this was a thread about voice acting, but when I try to defend voice acting you say you aren't talking about voice acting.
I'm going to try to break this down so we can figure out why I'm confused.
You say voice acting has kept RPGs from achieving their goal of creating an immersive experience.
If you aren't trying to be antagonistic why are you making things up that I said/claim? Here is an example: "You say voice acting has kept RPGs from achieving their goal of creating an immersive experience."
Except I never said that. All I said is that in my opinion it has made RPGs a little less immersive (as I don't get to personalize characters as much). Not even close to what you claim I said. I even talked about how FFX IS immersive, and that is a voice acted game...
There really is no point in responding as you just change what I write.
Not twisting your words, bruh.
I'm not sure why you're turning this into a fight. Do you just flatly dismiss anything anybody says that doesn't line up with your opinions? I'll be honest, though, I did get a laugh out of "not even close..." so maybe this is an attempt at humor? Facetiousness?
Once again:
Are there any examples of good quality voice acting itself being a detriment to a game? This isn't a challenge to rydrum, but a question for everybody. And it's not rhetorical (it's troutty that I have to explain myself like this).
I'm a reader. I read books more often than I play games. So I'm certainly not against text. I enjoy subtitles in foreign movies in languages I don't understand. I read all the extra information in games, like the books in Elder Scrolls games or the extra historical information and monster-data in FFXII. And yet, even concerning games with bad voice acting, I'd rather take the voices than leave them.
Not sure where you're getting this from. Adult-oriented animation goes back to Fritz the Cat and Heavy Metal in the West and even shows like South Park are pretty old nowadays. As NeoCracker pointed out, there's been a well-established pool of credible voice actors and you frequently see their name pop up in a lot of games and shows. Even hollywood stars have been getting into it or a while now, with Jason Statham being in the first Call of Duty almost a decade ago now.
Not twisting your words, bruh.
I'm not sure why you're turning this into a fight. Do you just flatly dismiss anything anybody says that doesn't line up with your opinions? I'll be honest, though, I did get a laugh out of "not even close..." so maybe this is an attempt at humor? Facetiousness?Fairly certain he's not trying to be America's next top comedian. And if he was flatly dismissing every opinion wouldn't he be putting his hands on his head and going "I can't hear you"?
I think voice acting done well has the potential to really bolster a game, but if it is done terribly, your probably better off not even having voice acting. I can't really think of a game with good voice acting that would be better without it. It'd be like chopping off a perfectly useful arm.
I sympathize with the OP's argument, although I don't really care that strongly about voice acting in and of itself. I do like older RPGs that seemed to allow you better immerse yourself in the main protagonist, but I don't think that's mutually exclusive to voice acting. I thought Lunar: SSSC, for example, did a great job, and it also had voice acting, though limited to cutscenes.
Basically, I consider voice acting as similar to high-quality graphics: they can be nice, but too often modern games focus too much development time on them. They should be nice bonuses, but entirely secondary to gameplay and plot. They can be done well, but sometimes end up just hurting the game overall.
You what what? smurf my current playthrough of FF VII. I'm switching to some Lunar. ;P
I just played Lunar Eternal Blue a few months ago- fantastic game.
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