Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
Mirage: I disagree that P3 is Fake difficulty, but I won't get into it cause I already know where you stand on this and I don't need to waste my time convincing you otherwise cause we both know it ain't going to happen.
Yeah, but what if I manage to convince you, huh? Oh, of course. That's why you don't wnat to, you're worried that I might succeed!
In my experience of debates, its very doubtful you could convince me. I am pretty stubborn and set in my ways.

And I dunno. I don't think there was a lot of challenge in FF4 that couldn't be grinded past, except the bonus dungeons added to the GBA version. Same goes for FF5, really. The challenge in 5 is really just figuring out how the various skills interact, and the skill cap on that is relatively low. You should get to that point around halfway through the game on your first playthrough, and then it won't ever really get harder, except things that are countered by leveling.

FF4 is less complex (yes, even the non-easymode version) than FF5 again, so I'd say that has an even lower skill cap.
I agree that RPGs in general are on the lower end of needing skill, but I am still just surprised how often I meet people who don't get them and struggle to get through them so I feel there is still some sense of challenge and a need to learn the skill of processing resources to create the best result possible. Like in the case of FFV, you can beat the game with low skill, though it may be hard, but anyone whose really delved into the games system knows which combinations work the best, which ones are easily exploited, which classes are the best to use for particular parts of the dungeon and can easily make one of the last challenging entries into their personal bitch. The Blue Mage alone is a testament to an RPG players skill because they have always been a class for the people who really learn the ins and outs of the game system and to use fighting game lingo, they are a top tier class though difficult to master because it both involves knowing how to acquire its skills and where they are most effective. The Blue Mage in FFV is especially a devastating job class but most people don't really know this and ignore it. This is kind of what I'm getting at by saying people being an expert at this genre. Let's face it, in a fighting game, a player can be good enough to beat the computer opponents consistently, but you really begin to separate the children from the experts when you turn it over to the competitive scene, same with FPS titles.

Though I also understand that since this genre is more about mechanics and puzzle solving, if you have a guide, you can easily pass yourself off as an expert cause its all written there, but I ask, how many people are confident enough to have a good 80-90% mastery of any RPG handed to them on the get go without a guide? To be experienced enough to notice the mechanics and patterns without a guide, look at the skills, know instantly how to exploit them, and are savvy enough to drop off the beaten path to find the secrets in the game's world. While an RPG community like EoFF would mostly raise their hands and say "Well duh!" people who don't play these games as part of their regular gaming diet would have more issues and get pissy when they missed something or failed to notice how easy it is to bork the system.

I agree the genre isn't exactly the hardest (anymore) and is in fact probably the easiest to master beyond shovel ware games but I still believe it requires some skill, its just that a forum of RPG players, we tend to forget this because we play it all the time.