Final Fantasy- Anti God ?

[Loony BoB]

My bad about XIII, forgot about the poorly explained Maker.

I believe it was poorly explained intentionally, because it makes the religion more realistic as most if not all religions in real life don't give you all the answers, and most answers are decided by people who run organised denominations rather than by the original details of the religion.

But yes, the XIII religion is complicated. The general gist of it is that most people believe the Maker has abandoned Gran Pulse, leaving it to it's own devices. I don't think Etro (the Goddess) is a third level God, though, I believe she was made by Maker. Barthy was designed to be like Satan - a fallen angel (fal'Cie). There's also that Lindzei guy or something like that, but I'm forgetting details now.

I also remember there being some mention of religion in FFVIII. I think it was in or near Zell's mum's house.

[Sephiroth]

I also remember there being some mention of religion in FFVIII. I think it was in or near Zell's mum's house.

Don't forget Hyne who was mentioned like the father of all witches. In a way that is also pretty godly.

Normally the gods in Final Fantasy are all natural forces which sometimes have also a personificated form. Technically Earth, Wind, Fire and Water and Void are also godly entities since existence began with them - or with the first four mentioned in Final Fantasy V. Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, Void, Chaos (true Chaos, so disorder), Moore, lifestream/Minerva, Light, Darkness, Goddess, Doom (Gaze), Poltrgeist, in a way Noah and also Hyne, in a way Necron or Iifa, the god of the Yevon religion, the Fayth in general and the collective of pyrefies which is exactly the same as the lifestream, Occuria, Lindzei, Bhunivelze, Goddess Etro and Fal'Cie - that seems all to be pretty divine. X-Death and Enuo were also pretty godly from the beginning because they were the representation of the "void side" and either fusions of many souls or immortal from the beginning or very hard to kill and only lost their immortality, Enuo did, when they traded it against the power of the void itself. JENOVA and Cetra also are some similiar entities which either cannot be entirely killed or have the power to decide when they want to become a part of the lifestream and some of them can also partly control it - technically everyone who uses Materia but I mean way more.

[Fynn]

Yeah, that episode kinda rubbed me the wrong way And I guess at least some of you know why.

I really disagree with him on the whole Kefka theme. It's like the others said in this thread - he thinks he is God. And, considering his nihilistic attitude, I think the whole Divine Comedy (NOT Inferno, that one just cover Hell, another sad mistake on MatPat's part ) gig was his way of mocking religion and putting himself in the place of God. Oh well, just my 3 cents here

[NeoCracker]

If anything FF X is more of an anti-church then anti-god. Mind you, BoF II I think has a way better anti-church theme going on, but I digress.

[Fynn]

If anything FF X is more of an anti-church then anti-god. Mind you, BoF II I think has a way better anti-church theme going on, but I digress.

I agree. X did this really heavy-handedly. It was really awkward for me to go through this game being constantly reminded "THE CHURCH IS EVIL AND IT HURTS SO MUCH! AAAH!", there are plenty of games that handled this anti-church thing better. Hell, I'm Catholic and I can still appreciate these games, but X just kind of failed in that respect, IMHO.

God, stop reminding me how I don't like FFX! It makes me derail every thread ever

[Red Mage Coffman]

I thought the video was interesting, but, as he says, it just a theory at most.

[Forsaken Lover]

FFX did an interesting job with Yevon because it wasn't all bad. The leaders genuinely did want to help people. It's just that they were thoroughly misguided in how they thought Spira needed help.

One of X-2's redeeming features is showing a world without Yevon and how it almost went to Hell.

There are plenty of games that are far worse when it comes to being anti-organized religion. (looking at you Xenogears)

[Bolivar]

Yeah there's a difference between being anti-God, anti-religion, and anti-religious establishments. I think to get to the bottom of this you need to understand how Japan views religion. From what I've heard over the years, they don't see any one religion as exclusively true; they take the good from various world faiths, but are overall skeptical of organized religious hierarchies.

Overall, they're fantasy games, and the common thread of all fantasy is the existence of the supernatural. Sometimes it manifests in something other than your traditional, sentient supernatural being, but a lot of religions employ this model as well.

[Forsaken Lover]

Well some people believe any sort of "anti-Christian" or "anti-religion" sentiment started back during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's time. He feared that the Christian missionaries were just laying the groundwork for foreign takeover.

A much less complicated reason religion is targeted in fiction (and the one that's probably more accurate) is that it's simply a large, faceless group that controls a lot of people. It's the same reason you get the evil corporation stereotype a lot.

[Raistlin]

I'm the last person who would complain if FF actually had anti-religious undertones, but I just don't see it consistently. FFX definitely had some anti-superstition and anti-organized religion themes going on, but that's not a consistent theme of the series. Where religious belief is referenced at all in most of the other games, it generally seems like just another fantasy element (though FFT is a notable exception), with maybe some comments that could be interpreted as anti-organized religion (though not anti-religious belief or anti-theism). Barthandelus in FFXIII, for example, was religious, but there was nothing really critical of the religious belief itself in the game. Contrast that with the criticism the anti-machina superstition received in FFX.

So yeah, I just don't see it. Though the stories might be better if it were true.

[Forsaken Lover]

Also while the Occuria are gods in FFXII and they are morally ambiguous to say the least, the Kiltia religion is fairly benign. Anistasis is probably the most benevolent leader we see in the game and the Archadian massacre that took place on Mt. Bur-omisace is easily the most vile thing that takes place in the course of the game's story.

Vayne's a "grey character" my ass. He was evil you louts.

[Skyblade]

Ooh, while we're on the whole "anti-relegious establishment" thing, let's not forget the Church of Glabedos.


It'd be nice to have an organized relegion somewhere that wasn't out to destroy or enslave mankind.

[chionos]

To echo G13, there's a trout-ton of religious references throughout the Final Fantasy universe. For the most part they're neutral, and are used for their fantastical elements. There are no anti-Jesus, anti-Yahweh, anti-ALLAH references anywhere in the series, as others have said. There are anti-establishment themes, but nothing to point in the direction of any one particular religion or its corresponding deity/deities.

If anything, the myriad references inspire enterprising players to dig into the religions and legends from which SE draws the names of their summons/cities/ships/characters.

Dude's a kook.

[Fynn]

Ooh, while we're on the whole "anti-relegious establishment" thing, let's not forget the Church of Glabedos.


It'd be nice to have an organized relegion somewhere that wasn't out to destroy or enslave mankind.

There's the Nisan faith in Xenogears

[Forsaken Lover]

Also the religion in Star Ocean 3 is quite benevolent. Church of Apris or something like that.