Playstation 4 Inbound!

[Loony BoB]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure he's referring to Multi-platform games ala Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, etc. Which are optimized for the 360 and PS3. One could also argue that SE is not a fantastic developer (at least anymore) :P

I would say that is poor development for the PC ports of these games rather than PCs with 8GB RAM and eight cores not being able to run something a PS3/360 can run. Also, you can say what you like about SE's games not having fantastic minigames or stories, but when it comes to game engines, graphics, pushing the limits of hardware etc. they are without doubt fantastic developers that lead the way for the rest of the group. If there is one thing people have always said about SE's recent games it's that these kind of things are done brilliantly.

[Bolivar]

I would say that is poor development for the PC ports of these games rather than PCs with 8GB RAM and eight cores not being able to run something a PS3/360 can run.

That is exactly the point, that specs mean less than optimization, and I'm not sure how what I said could've been construed in any other light.

[Loony BoB]

No, what you said is...

The PS3 can run multiplatform games better than a PC which does have those PS4 specs.

Which depending on your intended meaning is either so misleading it's not worth saying, or it's just plain wrong. What you said suggests that the PS3 runs games better than a PC with 8GB RAM and eight cores, but what it appears you're now trying to say is

If a game is poorly ported to the PC then it's possible that the PS3 will run that specific game better regardless of the specifications of the PC.

It's like me saying...

I can run faster than Usain Bolt

when what I really mean is

If someone else breaks Usain Bolt's leg then it's possible that I could run faster than Usain Bolt while his leg is broken.

[Slothy]

If there is one thing people have always said about SE's recent games it's that these kind of things are done brilliantly.

I will continue to argue, to my death bed if need be, that not only has SE been surpassed in graphical and art direction terms by quite a few AAA developers out there, but their recent games haven't been very impressive visually at all. Not hideous mind you (unless we're only talking about art style, in which case yes, stuff like FFXIII is pretty hideous), but certainly not anywhere near the high bar some developers have been setting. We'll see what happens when their new engine hits I guess, but right now, they're really just not tech leaders at all anymore.

[Bolivar]

While I've always disagreed with Vivi about whether FFXIII is a technically impressive game, I do have to co-sign that Square is not the defacto tech leader anymore. When I think of brilliance solely on the technical level, I think of Guerilla Games, DICE, CD Projekt RED, and Crytek to an extent. SE is more around that second tier of Ubisoft Montreal, Bethesda, and Rockstar.

No, what you said is...

The PS3 can run multiplatform games better than a PC which does have those PS4 specs.

Which depending on your intended meaning is either so misleading it's not worth saying, or it's just plain wrong. What you said suggests that the PS3 runs games better than a PC with 8GB RAM and eight cores, but what it appears you're now trying to say is

If a game is poorly ported to the PC then it's possible that the PS3 will run that specific game better regardless of the specifications of the PC.

It's like me saying...

I can run faster than Usain Bolt

when what I really mean is

If someone else breaks Usain Bolt's leg then it's possible that I could run faster than Usain Bolt while his leg is broken.

I'm fairly happy with those specs. In the end, the specs don't matter as much as how well developers have been optimizing their games. The PS3 can run multiplatform games better than a PC which does have those PS4 specs.

Why is this... I don't even... I'm not sure how anymore.... why?

[Slothy]

While I've always disagreed with Vivi about whether FFXIII is a technically impressive game, I do have to co-sign that Square is not the defacto tech leader anymore. When I think of brilliance solely on the technical level, I think of Guerilla Games, DICE, CD Projekt RED, and Crytek to an extent. SE is more around that second tier of Ubisoft Montreal, Bethesda, and Rockstar.

Actually, I'd put all three of those companies ahead of SE. Given the seamless open worlds they all create, their games are all technically more impressive than FFXIII was. Ubisoft's also just have way better art direction which is part of why Assassin's Creed 2, while absolutely not on the same level as a company like Naughty Dog or CD Projekt Red in terms of just making things look impressive technically, the great art style means AC2 is still a damn fine looking game. Admittedly, Rockstar and Bethesda are probably more on Square's level in terms of art design these days, but their games still impress me more on a technical level (though in Bethesda's case it's only if I ignore the mountains of bugs their titles are riddled with).

Why is this... I don't even... I'm not sure how anymore.... why?

I'm not sure what's confusing here. Your original statement is at least a little inaccurate. Yes, optimizing a PS3 or 360 title means it can run a game as well or better than a troutty port to the PC with little to no optimization, but that doesn't mean that specs don't matter, and I'm not even convinced that's a good thing since developers are basically running up against the hard limits of what the consoles can do now.

[Bolivar]

Inaccuracy aside, it doesn't get much more confusing than denying I was talking in terms of optimization when it's there in black and white.

And I'm not saying the PC ports are crappy. Even Black Ops II comes with an impressive depth of tweaking options, some of which just came out, like nvidia's TXAA anti-aliasing. Rather, it's more about how insane it is that developers are pulling so much out of these 256mb machines. All I'm saying is even if those numbers are a little lower than I would have wanted, we should be fine for a long while given what developers have been able to pull out of this generation's machines.

[Ouch!]

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, while it is impressive what developers have accomplished when you look at the specs for the consoles and compare it to high-end gaming rigs, that still lacks a degree of perspective. Consoles are dedicated hardware for a specific and singular purpose. Personal computers are machines built to multitask. If you stripped a lot of basic functionality running with Windows, it wouldn't be using that much RAM either.

[Loony BoB]

While I've always disagreed with Vivi about whether FFXIII is a technically impressive game, I do have to co-sign that Square is not the defacto tech leader anymore. When I think of brilliance solely on the technical level, I think of Guerilla Games, DICE, CD Projekt RED, and Crytek to an extent. SE is more around that second tier of Ubisoft Montreal, Bethesda, and Rockstar.

Perhaps I'm thinking a very different thing than you, because I'm not thinking of environments as much as I am thinking of what is arguably the hardest thing to get right in a game: Humans and their faces. I think SE are still far ahead of the likes of other games out there in this regard. Far Cry 3 was good, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to animated characters being able to go through a variety of different expressions smoothly, I think that SE is ahead of the pack. I will, however, note that they could still use a lot of work when it comes to making things look realistic in the sense of being right for the situation - by which I mean SE seem to not comprehend the idea of a character ever, ever getting dirty. xD But yeah, I've never seen humans done well in many games out there. Putting SE on the same level of Bethseda is quite frankly insulting, because I have never, ever seen a Bethseda game where the graphics blew me away. Even in ME3, the human faces look like they are no more than heads on dolls. Sure, they have expressions sometimes, but they don't look natural at all.

I still think that if there was a 'graphics race' going on and SE decided to emphasise environment visuals more than they do at the moment that they would be able to easily replicate and probably better anything that the likes of CryTek put out. In fact, while Far Cry 3 was beautiful, I'm not sure I would say the graphics themselves or the animations of the environment were a huge amount better than FFXIII. Different goals make up a lot of this. In a free roaming FPS, the time tends to be spent on the environment more than anything at all. In a RPG, they focus on the characters.

Why is this... I don't even... I'm not sure how anymore.... why?

I'm fairly happy with those specs. In the end, the specs don't matter as much as how well developers have been optimizing their games. The PS3 can run multiplatform games better than a PC which does have those PS4 specs.

I'm fairly happy with how fast I run. In the end, my speed doesn't matter as much as how well the other sprinters are on the day. I can run faster than Usain Bolt.

See what I did there? >=] All I'm getting at is that saying such a sweeping/false statement immediately after another vaguely relevant and true sentence doesn't make it any less sweeping/false as a statement. But I think we can all agree that if a multiplatform game was developed and optimised properly for both the PS3 and a PC with 8GB/8 cores then the PC will almost undoubtedly run the game better.

But yeah, what I do agree with is that if the PS4 is "limited" to 8GB RAM then developers will still find ways to use that RAM effectively and create great games with it, as evidenced by all previous and current consoles.

[Bolivar]

I guess we've really been saying the same thing, just at different extremes and at this point it doesn't really matter where it comes down.

I'm with you on a lot of these devs not being able to match SE when it comes to characters and animation. In a lot of Western RPGs, the characters look like they're standing still even when they're moving, and Crysis 2's character animations were like "really?" in a lot of places. In general, there's a lot of things I missed about Japanese game design this generation, especially in RPGs, and I'd hope to see them come back this time around. I'd love to get another FFXII or Dragon Quest VIII and show all these new gamers how an open world is really supposed to be done.

FYI Bioware is behind Mass Effect and Ubisoft Montreal is behind Far Cry 3.

[Mirage]

I'll agree with you that many western games leave much to be desired when it comes to animation quality and accuracy. That is however a problem with the developers, and if the developers don't know how to animate things properly, it doesn't matter if it's on the PS2 or the PS20.

If the developers that made poor animations in some PC games made a game for the PS4, they're not exactly going to magically become better at animations. Well, unless they acquired a lot of work experience in their previous title.

I think it's important to separate those two points, and not mix art direction/skill of developers with the performance of the machines.

[nirojan]

Here come the Durango (Xbox 720) specs:
durango specs.jpg

Many developers and analysts have predicted that the PS4 may be slightly more powerful than the 720, so the specs seem to confirm what we know about the PS4.

According to sketches from information shared by SuperDae, there's 8GB of DDR3 memory, along with a small amount of flash memory for system tasks. The Durango's optical disc drive is 50GB in size, while, as mentioned, there's a 500GB hard drive, with read speeds of up to 50 MB/sec.

If you've got a 3D TV set, the Durango is capable—if developers want to support it—of delivering stereo 3D content in 1080p.

Those reliant on wi-fi, and who were forced to pay for Microsoft's costly external adapter with the original Xbox 360, will be happy to know that the Durango ships with built-in wi-fi (though there's still an ethernet port for wired connections).

In terms of audio, the retail Durango will output via either HDMI or S/PDIF (optical) connections, and can support up to 7.1 channels.

[Mirage]

50 MB/s disk access? That's pretty terrible. Also, what's the source for that image? It seems strange that the CPU doesn't have direct access to RAM without going through the northbridge, seeing as all AMD CPUs have done that the last 10 years, and Intel is doing that since i7.

[Bolivar]

Hmmm, 50GB optical disc drive, doesn't say if it's blu ray or not. If it is, that and the s/pdif optical jack means there's some sony tech in this box. Regardless, it's a good thing they're shipping this one with wifi and optical audio.

[nirojan]

I believe it will have Bluray (read that on IGN).

The article itself is from someone who got their hands on a dev kit:The Next Xbox Has Mandatory Kinect, Game-Swapping and New Controllers, According To Leaked Info
has some tidbits from the new Kinect as well.