Video Games As Art

[Laddy]

I'm writing a paper arguing for the status of video games as an art form, and what I need are specific examples that support my case. So, in your opinion, what games hold the most objective artistic merit and why?

Some games I am writing on:
Alpha Centauri
Silent Hill 2
Spec Ops: The Line
Shadow of the Colossus/Ico
Planescape: Torment
Portal

EDIT: I want to avoid so-called "art games" as I find them generally lacking in narrative, auteur theory, and direction, all areas that I feel my examples best support.

EDIT2: Forgot Okami.

[Pete for President]

I don't have a waterproof theory about this, but from the top of my head I consider a game to be art when it does either of these 3;

- Translates or reflects real life problems of society in a neutral and inspiring way, while leaving enough space for debate as in; there's no black and white situation.

- Sparks a wide range of different emotions using several means (be it music, the environment, happening events or words).

- Experiments with interaction between real life strangers where there is no expectation or rule how to behave given up front.

Some games I'd recommend:
FFX - heavy themes on religion, indoctrination, death and racism.
Dark Souls - it's basically one big vanitas (artpiece where "nothing lasts" is the theme).
Journey - Mostly the player interaction thing, but it also sparks emotion using music and the environment.

[Laddy]

Dark Souls are Journey are excellent choices.

I'm hesitant to add FFX, because whereas it is thematically significant, in execution it lacks the subtlety needed to support my point. Not that it isn't a good example, but it simply lacks thematic nuance and isn't well-written enough in certain regards, imo.

If I did include an FF game, I was leaning more towards VII and/or IX. VII has themes of pantheism and is very ecological and anti-capitalist in its message while being somewhat more subtle in its presentation. IX is more character-oriented, and has existentialist while still having concepts on identity, purpose, and duty that I feel compare to many classic films and novels.

[Pete for President]

I'm hesitant to add FFX, because whereas it is thematically significant, in execution it lacks the subtlety needed to support my point. Not that it isn't a good example, but it simply lacks thematic nuance and isn't well-written enough in certain regards, imo.

If I did include an FF game, I was leaning more towards VII and/or IX. VII has themes of pantheism and is very ecological and anti-capitalist in its message while being somewhat more subtle in its presentation. IX is more character-oriented, and has existentialist while still having concepts on identity, purpose, and duty that I feel compare to many classic films and novels.

I see your point. Subtlety is key in making a player think for himself.

Edit: on that note, I have my doubts about Okami.

IX feels like a valid choice. Vivi's backstory is closely related to the morality discussion of (human) cloning.

[Wolf Kanno]

To me, the major element that makes games art is the unique quality of interactive. We can talk about story themes or use of camera and music work but those crossover into other mediums, so for me, the clearest sign of a game being artistic is when the interactive nature of the game helps with the immersion. Its one thing to sit their and have a story be told to you, its a different beast when you actually feel like the participant which is why I always point out Team Ico's works because the games have incredibly deep themes and narrative despite lacking conventional story telling elements like dialogue.

It is video games ability to break the boundary of passive observer to participant that makes video games a unique and powerful artform.

[Pike]

(SPOILER)(SPOILER)(SPOILER)256px-MorrowindCOVER.jpg

And I'm not joking. That backstory, that character development, that eastern-influenced architecture, and finally, (SPOILER)that 36 Lessons of Vivec

[Mirage]

In your paper, who is it you're trying to convince?

[krissy]

argue that gran turismo 5 is an art game because there's obviously car art shows in the world and that counts

argue that lego star wars is an art game because it's a parody of a specific cultural idea, and what is parody but an art form?

argue that street fighter 4 is art because of how skilled people become at it. ryu is a brush and the fireballs are paint.

[Mirage]

Lego Star Wars definitely is. Probably GT5 too, at least as a display of art. Street Fighter 4? Sure, but I wouldn't go for the "ryu is a brush" approach, because that makes the game a tool to make art, not art itself. However, the game's graphics, character designs, stage designs, music and story/plot is enough to make it qualify without problems.

The very second a game developer stops adding things to a game that are purely functional or gameplay-related, it becomes a piece of artwork. Even if the game's graphics only imitate reality, such as "hyper realistic" shooters, isn't that just as much art as realistically painted still life paintings?

Any game that is not purely a tool for competitive gaming will usually qualify as "art". What makes games different from other forms of media is that it is a lot of things at the same time. Even if most games are "art", they are also a ton of other things. Sometimes there's a lot more of the "other things", other times not. However, the question is if it is art, not to which degree it is art.

The only "real" argument I've heard that makes sense to me against games being art, is that works of art need to be a non-changing work, not dramatically changing after it has left the creator's hands. However, this is a misunderstanding by those who state it, because even if games may appear to be dynamic, they really aren't, they are usually just an extremely complex series of pre-determined events. There is a finite number of things the player can do, and this is decided by the programmers. If I am allowed to sneak into a place in Skyrim instead of fight my way in, this isn't the work of art changing after it left the developers. It is two different approaches that the developers put into the game, and they are explicitly giving the "viewer" the choice of which of their two "stories" he or she wants to view (play).

Of course, "art" is a pretty fuzzy term. Even pornographic movies are works of art. Even the scribbles of a 4 year old kid is art. Just being "art" doesn't say anything at all about the quality or depth of said artwork.

[Forsaken Lover]

Xenogears has a crap-ton of themes ranging from the scientific to the psychological to the spiritual. All while making use of real world religion and mythology as an allegory.

Maybe it's not subtle enough, though.

[Bolivar]

^ Yes, some of it is gratuitous, but as much as I hate to admit it, I felt Xenogears was an incredible argument for games as art. When you're hearing the music, watching the scene, reading the dialogue, I can't imagine on what universe that couldn't possibly qualify as art.

It all depends on the definition. It can be very low as Mirage pointed out, or it can be high in which a lot of games mentioned here can satisfy it. A lot of Morrowind's deeper themes achieve the subtlety Laddy is looking for, like it's portrayal of cultural stagnation and the human search for religious purity (even though it's about a bunch of elves).

A topic that frequently comes up is whether interactivity can be art and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Interactivity can create feelings and inspire critical discussion parallel to what traditional art forms can. But I think it further obfuscates what art actually is, like can sessions of Dungeons & Dragons be art; it reminds me Roger Ebert's big comparison that these are games, like chess, which can never be art (yes it's idiotic).

[the_best_noob]

Why not Portal 2 to go with your Portal 1?

[Mirage]

Depends entirely on the D&D session. It can be just a brawl, or it can be an impromptu storytelling/acting session with multiple "writers". These stories, if recorded or written down would indeed count as a work of art, so why would it not be this while in the process of making it?

[qwertysaur]

I am interested in reading your paper and offering a critique on it Laddy. For a suggesting maybe a Shin Megami Tensei game?

Also how long is this paper going to be? A suggestion for the amount of games you use for examples would be about 1.5 times the number of pages you are writing, so a 5 page paper would have 7 or 8 games as examples.