Doctor Who: Season 10

[Lonely Paper Star]

That finale. asldkfj;aslekjf

I might have teared up a bit, too.

[NorthernChaosGod]

OMGOMGOMG

I don't want to wait to find out what happens.

[The Man]

(SPOILER)Yeah after thinking about this more I'm pretty sure John Hurt's Doctor has to be the one from the Time Wars, but what he's ashamed of can't just be that he sealed off the Daleks and the Time Lords, because he's openly admitted to that as Nine, Ten, and Eleven, and that wouldn't be much of a secret. If he's so ashamed of the John Hurt incarnation that he says he's lost the right to call himself the Doctor, then he has to have done something more than any of that that we haven't heard of. And thinking about what he might have done that might eclipse any of that is, frankly, terrifying.

[blackmage_nuke]

(SPOILER) Remember that it was a Timewar. This doesn't necessarily mean that John Hurt was an incarnation between the 8th and the 9th. It's possible that John Hurt is the doctor's final regeneration and he really is The Valeyard crossing his own timeline.

It has to be a past Doctor because otherwise how would Matt Smith's Doctor know what he had done?

It's possible that the 8th or 9th Doctor was there when he did whatever horrible thing he did.

It's also possible John Hurt is really 8th Doctor but aged the long way after the movie and all the books/audio dramas. (assuming they didn't depict his death, i haven't actually read any of them).

That's the theory I've heard as well. However, why would they introduce him as the Doctor? Only to keep you guessing? Hm.

From your apparent hate of buildup judging by the Game of thrones thread I cant tell if you're joking or if you don't understand the concept of a double twist

[Jinx]

It's not that I hate build-up. I hate how this season of Game of Thrones is being written and directed. I've read the books, and it was executed much better. Don't be insulting in your assumptions. It's just rude.

No, the reason I said that is because there's a big difference between a show leading you to believe a character is one way, and later having it revealed they were a different way (i.e. this character was good and helpful, later turns out to be the main villain) and a show straight up telling you OH HEY GUYS THIS IS THIS EXACT CHARACTER OKAY WE ARE NAMING HIM AS THIS CHARACTER AND NO OTHER CHARACTER and then later having it be an entirely different character and saying LOL JK WE LIED.

[Agent Proto]

....Um, are you sure you're in the right thread?

[Skyblade]

(SPOILER)My reading of the episode is consistent with Psy/Del's, and it seems to be what the finale was most straight-forwardly hinting at: that Hurt is the Doctor incarnation from during the Time War, and he's the one that sealed off "all" of the Time Lords, Daleks, etc. The Doctor has never been particularly proud of his conduct during the Time War, so it would make sense that he would refuse to recognize the part of himself that existed at the time.

Except that it's well known that he did, and that everyone, including the Dalek's and the Time Lords, still refer to him as "The Doctor" when he did it. They didn't recognize him as someone else, someone with another name.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm about to go into a major, major rant about this episode, and what a let down it was.

(SPOILER)First: Who or what was the Great Intelligence? Why did he hate the Doctor so much (seriously, three defeats is enough to make him destroy the universe for revenge)? How did he survive as a disembodied mind for so long? How exactly was he trapped and wanting to be "at peace"?

Second: How did he control his non-entitous minions when he wasn't possessing them? Why did they collapse to nothing when he shattered their form, yet Strax's blow was immediately healed?

Third: How did TGI learn of the Doctor, his secrets, and his history? How did he grab three people from 1800's London through spacetime to the Doctor's grave? If he's capable of temporal manipulation, why did he need to access the Doctor's grave in the first place? How did he know what the grave contained or how it would work?

Fourth: If the Silence were organized specifically to prevent this from happening (and also seemed to know exactly where and when it would happen), where the frell were they when they could have actually been useful?

This episode reeked of contrivance. The character moments were bloody brilliant, I won't fault that, but the events and plot which got them there sucked. Nothing was explained, nothing made sense. It was a story built around the character moments and development, but which has no substance or depth of its own.

And I might take all that, if this was the first time they'd pulled something like this and I had some reasonable expectation that it might all get explained in the future. But considering I'm still waiting on similar explanations from two seasons ago... Yeah, I'm at the point where I've given up on deep writing and huge behind the scenes actions, and instead I'm thinking that everything's being pulled right out of the author's rear.


Personal ExplanationThe Great Intelligence is the Master. It explains his knowledge of time travel, his knowledge of the Doctor, pretty much everything about his motivation. How exactly he controls the non-entities is a bit of an unknown, but we could believe it of a character who was actually built up and developed to be so clever and smart, and also one so broken. It would even explain the disembodied mind thing, as the failed resurrections and multiple destructions have already done some really weird things to him.

It would also explain why an entity capable of living forever and manipulating spacetime would want access to the Doctor's tomb. Getting access to everything that is the Doctor and manipulating it directly is perfectly in character. Even though he doesn't need to do it, he would, because it's malicious and has that personal touch that the Master loves oh so much.

I love the characters and their interactions in this story, but the story itself was not up to par.



Oh, one final note. (SPOILER)Get over River Song already. Geez, I am sick of that Mary Sue.

[Jinx]

Yes, I am. Read BMN's post, and then it will make sense, Proto. My first post is addressing him bringing up my opinions on GoT, the second is me explaining why I did not assume last night's reveal was setting up for a "double twist" as he said it.

Does that mean that's not what will happen? That (SPOILER)John Hurt might be playing the Valeyard or someone else (who is an incarnation/persona of the Doctor, but not the actual Doctor, nor identified as the Doctor? Sure, that might happen. But if it does, I honestly think that's poor writing.

I don't mind build-ups. I still stand by my opinion that this has been the greatest season of Doctor Who ever. Or, at least from the reboot, as I haven't seen much Classic Who. I understand that people disagree with me, and I'm not really trying to set up an argument to justify that. It's just how I feel. But I know that a lot of people were unhappy with the second half of this season, as they felt it wasn't connected enough, or that not enough happened. I loved it. Why? BECAUSE of that. BECAUSE I knew it was building up to something. And while I don't think the reveal of Clara was as gigantic as I was hoping--but then, I read so many fan theories, it was bound to not live up to my expectation--but I think that the ending was so spectacular, and I am on my seat ready for the 50th Anniversary.

tl;dr I like build-ups when they're done right.

[The Man]

(SPOILER)

First: Who or what was the Great Intelligence?

Rather than boring you with paragraphs on paragraphs, I will supply a link to the Tardis wiki, a fountain of information for questions like this.

Why did he hate the Doctor so much (seriously, three defeats is enough to make him destroy the universe for revenge)?

It wasn't trying to destroy the smurfing universe. Don't be dramatic. It was trying to destroy the Doctor. Also there were far more than three defeats.

How did he survive as a disembodied mind for so long?

It was a disembodied intelligence to begin with. It's also a member of the Cthulhu Mythos (specifically, Yog-Sothoth) according to expanded universe materials so basically expecting it to obey the laws of life on this planet is beyond ridiculous. Obviously it has powers beyond the powers of Earth life. This is far from unprecedented; the monster in "Midnight" is never even depicted onscreen and we never learn even a single detail about what it is or how it works, but it manages to control a human woman and the Doctor. This is far from the only example in the series' history.

How exactly was he trapped and wanting to be "at peace"?

I'm not even sure what this question is supposed to be asking.

Second: How did he control his non-entitous minions when he wasn't possessing them?

The same way it turned the Whisper Man into Walter Simeon. It's a disembodied intelligence. It is only using Simeon as its avatar because humans (and Time Lords) respond to human forms. It's a disembodied intelligence with the powers of telekinesis. By linking the Great Intelligence with the avatar it is possessing, you are not paying attention to the way it actually behaves. The avatar is not the Great Intelligence; it is merely the Great Intelligence's avatar. Moreover, it is pretty clearly possessing all of the Whisper Men; Walter Simeon's form is simply the only one it turned into a recognisable human form. This is how the Great Intelligence has worked for a long time; it was controlling all the Yeti robots in "The Abominable Snowmen" as well.

Why did they collapse to nothing when he shattered their form, yet Strax's blow was immediately healed?

Pretty obviously they collapsed when the Great Intelligence shattered them because it was no longer holding them together, and Strax's blow was immediately healed because it was holding the one he struck together.

Third: How did TGI learn of the Doctor, his secrets, and his history?

Obviously it happened offscreen. Do we really need to be shown the way the villain learns of every single aspect of what it uses in its plans? Because that would be tremendously boring storytelling. It doesn't advance the plot in any entertaining way. A disembodied intelligence pretty clearly has a wide range of ways to gather information, and it's not particularly necessary for us to see it learn things that it is going to use in the future.

How did he grab three people from 1800's London through spacetime to the Doctor's grave? If he's capable of temporal manipulation, why did he need to access the Doctor's grave in the first place?

The psychic link between all the people in the 'conference call' is pretty obviously what enabled it to move them across time. It can't just move anyone anywhere; and more importantly, it can't move itself in time. Being able to travel in time directly on its own would give it the ability to wreak far more havoc on the Doctor's timestream.

How did he know what the grave contained or how it would work?

Again, it had obviously been given the information offscreen.

Fourth: If the Silence were organized specifically to prevent this from happening (and also seemed to know exactly where and when it would happen), where the frell were they when they could have actually been useful?

The Doctor had defeated them to the extent that they would be terrified of ever showing their face to any human that existed after 1969. Do you really expect that they could possibly do anything where any human is present after such a crushing defeat? Because if you do, then you weren't paying attention. The Silence couldn't show up because Clara (and probably others in the party) would "kill [them] all on sight". In fact, for all we know, they did show up and they were killed, but because the party stopped looking at them they forgot about it.

A lot of your questions are answered in the wiki article I linked or in the article about the episode.

The Great Intelligence is the Master. It explains his knowledge of time travel, his knowledge of the Doctor, pretty much everything about his motivation. How exactly he controls the non-entities is a bit of an unknown, but we could believe it of a character who was actually built up and developed to be so clever and smart, and also one so broken. It would even explain the disembodied mind thing, as the failed resurrections and multiple destructions have already done some really weird things to him.

It would also explain why an entity capable of living forever and manipulating spacetime would want access to the Doctor's tomb. Getting access to everything that is the Doctor and manipulating it directly is perfectly in character. Even though he doesn't need to do it, he would, because it's malicious and has that personal touch that the Master loves oh so much.

While it's possible that the Great Intelligence is the Master, it would also mean the Master is Yog-Sothoth, which is highly unlikely since the Master is identified as a Time Lord, and has been known as a Time Lord since at least childhood if not infancy. It would mean that Yog-Sothoth has been running a very, very long con, which is possible, but unlikely because it would make for shoddy storytelling.

Get over River Song already. Geez, I am sick of that Mary Sue.

River Song is far from a Mary Sue.

[blackmage_nuke]

(SPOILER)
Sorry i read ahead and assumed someone had stated the theory that the valeyard and the doctor are the same person but then i didnt notice that post was after your post and i read the mans post wrong, my bad!

[Skyblade]

I thought the audio plays and books were non-canon. And I certainly never made the connection to Web of Fear (although looking back, I can see the connection). That might have been a good thing to actually explain some time in the season.

[Cuchulainn]

I can't be the only one who hopes Commander Strax shows up in every episode can I?


“Horse! You have failed in your mission. We are lost with no sign of Sweetville. Do you have any final words before your summary execution?”

[charliepanayi]

Strax is hilarious (especially that bit with the horse), but I think having him around all the time might wear thin after a while, the occasional appearance works better.

[The Man]

The canonicity of the EU materials has never been firmly established (apart from that the 2010-2011 games are considered "extra episodes"), but they often explain things that happen in the show itself (for example, the Cybermen learning the ability to adapt to new threats from the Borg makes much more sense than them just randomly gaining the ability), so it's plausible that they'd exist in the same continuity.

Strax is awesome but I think it'd be better for him, Vastra and Jenny to get a spinoff than for them to appear in every DW episode. Even Matt Smith has agreed with this so it might even actually happen.

[Jinx]

I like Strax, I think he's funny. But I'm not crazy in love with him like everyone else is. I think a little bit of Strax goes a long way, and he gets annoying really fast.

I do like how he always gets the genders of humans wrong, though.