Wakka is the best character, discuss

[Pumpkin]

These are lies. LIIIIEEEEEEEEEEESSS!!!!!!!!!

[Pike]

You guys are really seeing a different character than I am xD It's as if I made a thread called "Let's talk about how great Tyrion Lannister is" and everyone immediately started talking about Joffrey instead. xD

Also: "HE'S RACIST" is not a good argument for undermining a character. In fact, if you hate a character so much because of his views, then said character, by being able to elicit such an emotional response from you, is a resounding success as a character. If he was a bad character then you wouldn't be bothered by his views.

[maybee]

Also: "HE'S RACIST" is not a good argument for undermining a character. In fact, if you hate a character so much because of his views, then said character, by being able to elicit such an emotional response from you, is a resounding success as a character. If he was a bad character then you wouldn't be bothered by his views.

Uhh yeah it is.

Being racist is not a good character personality trait. There's views and then there is being a downright assface towards people of a different race. No it's called being annoyed at somebody who's being a total and complete douchebag.

No. If he was a good character he would be complexed, relatable, balanced and iconic. Wakka is none of those.

Somebody like Terra, Cloud, Yuna, Ashe, Balthier, Cecil, Kain is that. Wakka does not belong in the same awesome FF character group as those characters. He does not.

[Slothy]

Wakka is a pretty meh character, but at least he's more likeable than that steaming pile of trout we know as curling.

[Pike]

Also: "HE'S RACIST" is not a good argument for undermining a character. In fact, if you hate a character so much because of his views, then said character, by being able to elicit such an emotional response from you, is a resounding success as a character. If he was a bad character then you wouldn't be bothered by his views.

Uhh yeah it is.

Being racist is not a good character personality trait. There's views and then there is being a downright assface towards people of a different race. No it's called being annoyed at somebody who's being a total and complete douchebag.

No. If he was a good character he would be complexed, relatable, balanced and iconic. Wakka is none of those.

Somebody like Terra, Cloud, Yuna, Ashe, Balthier, Cecil, Kain is that. Wakka does not belong in the same awesome FF character group as those characters. He does not.

Yeah he does learn his ways, but then he spends the rest of the game whining about it. " Oh no Seymour Senpai no don't tell me that you evil " ! " Nooo " !

" Not Seymoor Senpai whine/ whine/ moan/ complain "

Please.

Um. You're missing the point. You don't have to agree with a character's views for the character to be good from a writing and technical standpoint. Plenty of villains are fantastically well-done characters. Stories would be incredibly boring if they weren't. This is how characters work. They are supposed to elicit an emotional response from people.

The fact that he really gets to you this much is more just proof that he was a really well done character.

Edit: Saying that a character has to be "relatable" in order to be a good character is completely false. If every good character in the world was "relatable" than every story in the world would be remarkably boring and homogenous.

[maybee]

Um. You're missing the point. You don't have to agree with a character's views for the character to be good from a writing and technical standpoint. Plenty of villains are fantastically well-done characters. Stories would be incredibly boring if they weren't. This is how characters work. They are supposed to illicit an emotional response from people.

The fact that he really gets to you this much is more just proof that he was a really well done character.

Yes but those are Villains. They are supposed to be sinister and negative, it's apart of what makes being a Villains work.

Kefka is a excellent character despite being callous, cold-hearted, sick, and a complete psycho. Though he is a Villain. Wakka is not a villain so having a huge negative flaw such as being racist, makes him heavily flawed.

Yes characters can't be perfect otherwise they'll be a damn Mary/ Gary Stu but something like racism goes too damn far and it's one of the main reasons why he's hugely unlikeable in my personal opinion.

Not to mention he has no character apart from - first part of the game being massively racist and then second part complaining that the big- up's in Yevon won't listen to him because they're tainted betrayers.

I can understand at him being upset, outraged and emotional by and during the first Seymour battle, but by Yunalesca smurf is it annoying.

Again no. Wakka is a awful character.

Edit: Saying that a character has to be "relatable" in order to be a good character is completely false. If every good character in the world was "relatable" than every story in the world would be remarkably boring and homogenous.

Being relatable helps make the character likeable.

[Pike]

Characters aren't always cleanly cut into heroes and villains. They shouldn't be, and the best characters aren't. The best characters have both a positive side and a negative side. The best characters can be, in turn, sinister or heroic. This is human nature. This is what makes a good character. Someone with a surprising side to them. Someone with a flaw, or, preferably, several flaws, who can go through a character arc.

I don't agree with saying "this character flaw is going too far!" There's no such thing. If it happens in real life (it does) then it can happen in a character. If you don't like it personally, that's fine. But in writing, this is the textbook definition of good character design.

Avoiding the darker aspects of human nature makes for very poor characters and very poor stories.

[Madame Adequate]

maybee you seem to have missed that Wakka's entire character arc throughout the game is realizing he's a bigot and realizing that he is wrong, and working to overcome it. That's the literal definition of character development - a character has a flaw and eventually overcomes it.

[Pike]

In closing I leave you with this delightful message I found on Tumblr today:

Wakka gets a lot of crap for being a bigoted dingle douche, and while that may be true for the first part of the game, let us keep in mind that his attitude is the result of years of conditioning by Yevon. Yevon made a point to convince the people of Spira that the only way to get Sin to stop terrorizing their world for good— the only way for their loved ones to stop dying— was to atone for their regressions. Machina is one of those regressions, by Yevon decree, and the Al Bhed are machina-crazy, therefore, the logical conclusion there is that the Al Bhed are “supporting” Sin, in a roundabout way. Wakka wasn’t going out of his way to be hateful, he was simply guided by hope for a world without Sin, and fear that that world could never come about if people like Rikku were left unchecked.

Does that excuse his actions? Of course not: Lulu and Yuna are pious as well, and they are much more accepting than Wakka… but it just takes him awhile to come around! Slowly, as we see here, he starts to see the light, and by the end of X-2, he even gives his kid an Al Bhed name! So, let’s not judge him too harshly, ya?

^ this, my friends, is good characterization.

[Pete for President]

Um. You're missing the point. You don't have to agree with a character's views for the character to be good from a writing and technical standpoint. Plenty of villains are fantastically well-done characters. Stories would be incredibly boring if they weren't. This is how characters work. They are supposed to illicit an emotional response from people.

The fact that he really gets to you this much is more just proof that he was a really well done character.

Yes but those are Villains. They are supposed to be sinister and negative, it's apart of what makes being a Villains work.

Yes characters can't be perfect otherwise they'll be a damn Mary/ Gary Stu but something like racism goes too damn far and it's one of the main reasons why he's hugely unlikeable in my personal opinion.

Have fun with the characters of Teletubbies or My Little Pony or whatever story takes place in a world all fun and games.

Wakka being racist is no reason one wouldn't be able to relate to him. We're all racist in one way or another. And that's not because we particularly want to, but that is how society shapes us. Exactly what happened to Wakka. He's closer to all of us than you think, though he's be a bit more extreme. Which is pretty normal considering the world is full of death and misery.

In closing I leave you with this delightful message I found on Tumblr today:

Wakka gets a lot of crap for being a bigoted dingle douche, and while that may be true for the first part of the game, let us keep in mind that his attitude is the result of years of conditioning by Yevon. Yevon made a point to convince the people of Spira that the only way to get Sin to stop terrorizing their world for good— the only way for their loved ones to stop dying— was to atone for their regressions. Machina is one of those regressions, by Yevon decree, and the Al Bhed are machina-crazy, therefore, the logical conclusion there is that the Al Bhed are “supporting” Sin, in a roundabout way. Wakka wasn’t going out of his way to be hateful, he was simply guided by hope for a world without Sin, and fear that that world could never come about if people like Rikku were left unchecked.

^ this, my friends, is good characterization.

Agreed.

[maybee]

Characters aren't always cleanly cut into heroes and villains. They shouldn't be, and the best characters aren't. The best characters have both a positive side and a negative side. The best characters can be, in turn, sinister or heroic. This is human nature. This is what makes a good character. Someone with a surprising side to them. Someone with a flaw, or, preferably, several flaws, who can go through a character arc.

I already know this and basically already agreed with this. I already said and mentioned that no character can be perfect otherwise that would make him a total Mary/ Gary Stu.

I don't agree with saying "this character flaw is going too far!" There's no such thing.

So would you support a character if he or she raped another character ?
Would you support a character if he or she was a paedophile ?

I really disagree with you on this Pike. Really disagree.

But in writing, this is the textbook definition of good character design.

Yes but Wakka is not. Just because he's a Racist and then realize that he was wrong and then steps back doesn't mean that he's a well developed character or a a character with a deep persona. He just complains throughout the game and then steps back. That's it. That's like Cloud realizing that he was Zack and then just stepping back. No going crazy, no Lifestream scence with Tifa, no depression in ACC.

Wakka is a terrible character.

maybee you seem to have missed that Wakka's entire character arc throughout the game is realizing he's a bigot and realizing that

he is wrong, and working to overcome it. That's the literal definition of character development - a character has a flaw and eventually overcomes it.

You seem to have missed that Wakka hardly has a entire character arc. He just realizes that he was wrong, that's it. What- What ? Where is this " Working to Overcome it " come from ? No, he doesn't. He just complains to all the Yevon high-ups, that don't give two trouts about his moaning that they're frauds and that's it. He does nothing of the sort, there's no big " Wakka overcomes his flaws " Maybe a little in X-2, but in X not even.
In fact he never apologizes to Rikku or Yuna for being a douchebag towards their Race. He tries to act nicer to Rikku, but that's it. Wakka could walk away half- way through FF X and it wouldn't make a damn difference.

This is Wakka

Blitzball Player that looses and sucks being a Captain
Huge Racist Douchebag
Complains to everybody that Yevon are dicks.
Sees Tidus go off at the end, doesn't seem to care too much. Not even a huge or tearful farewell goodbye between them.

Compared to somebody like Vivi, Cloud or Ashe this is pathetic.

[maybee]

Wakka being racist is no reason one wouldn't be able to relate to him. We're all racist in one way or another.

You're kidding right ? We are not all racists. smurf.

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I've had enough. I'm so out of this thread. If you like Wakka fine, but imo these are retarded reasons for supporting his character.

Edit : New theory. Pike and MILF are the same persons, trying to spread around the love of Wakka around.

[Rantz]

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[Loony BoB]

Wakka's alright, and if anything I found him to be one of the better characters in the game. He's untold amounts better than my disliked trio of Seymour, Yuna and Tidus. I don't know who I liked most out of the other four playable characters, though... tough to call. Kimahri is cool because he's not a human, and I like non-human characters (although non-humanoid characters are even better). For looks, Rikku is cute and Lulu is a hottie. I like to be around positive people, which is something I'd generally apply to Wakka and Rikku. I like Lulu for her intelligence, I'd say she is probably the wisest of the bunch, if not the most intellectual (oddly that would probably go to Rikku, the more I think about it... her savvy with electronics and language work in her favour). Wakka perhaps has the best comedy value of the lot. Really too tough for me to pick a character, to be honest. D=

[Pete for President]

Wakka being racist is no reason one wouldn't be able to relate to him. We're all racist in one way or another.

You're kidding right ? We are not all racists. smurf.

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I've had enough. I'm so out of this thread. If you like Wakka fine, but imo these are retarded reasons for supporting his character.

Not kidding. And I would appreciate if you would try to understand just how far Spira's issues resemble that of Earth. We can't help that racism still exists; it's an issue of society that has yet to be solved. Racism happens in a lot of different degrees, but the most extreme degree is probably what you have in mind right now and Wakka is borderline in that area. Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. That is a form of racism most of us don't even realize. It's non-hostile, but it's there.

We can't help it; it's all in the way we are brought up. Another example; I live in a city of which 50% is not native Dutch and I have always been to schools where all cultures are accepted. Yet all my friends are Dutch. I don't think I'm racist, yet why don't I have multicultural social contacts? I don't know. Makes you wonder if racism is built in, right? Even on a non-hostile level.

On a sidenote, the Al Bhed aren't the only ones being looked down upon. Even the Crusaders get their fair share of being treated differently because of their views.

Edit: forgot to relate this post to Wakka; he is a perfect example of how even a die-hard racist can turn himself around when the truth is revealed and his initial source of being racist is proven wrong.