Hardest Superboss

[Skyblade]

A small amount of luck being involved doesn't make a boss cheap. Yes, almost all RPG bosses are random to some degree. But whatever the boss throws at you, there should be a way to respond to it/counter it/prepare against it. The existence of an attack combination that's 100% impossible to survive and which a boss might use randomly can make the battle completely up to luck alone, however.

True, but again, in case of Ozma, Meteor isn't 100% impossible to survive since Meteor's damage is entirely random, no matter what enemy (or Vivi) uses it in the game. In IX, Deathguise opens with Meteor. The first time I faced him, it killed me in one hit. The second time, it barely did any damage at all. It's how the spell works. Now if Ozma had something that could always, 100% instant kill you, then I would agree it's cheap. But as it is, he doesn't, he just attacks fast and hard, and has one, one move that requires you to be lucky. It might kill you, it might not. I don't agree that that makes Ozma as a whole cheap. Especially since there are ways in which you can set yourself to survive even if Meteor decideds to smurf you, like auto-life. Ozma has no real, 100% instant game over move. He does have one move that's like rolling a dice, and you just need luck, and that move isn't even exclusive to him since the player has access to it as well.

No, Meteor isn't a 100% always kill. Neither is Darkja from FFXII. It doesn't matter, though, because nothing you do can affect it. If Meteor hits you for max damage, it will kill you (and Ozma can follow up with Curse which will kill you instantly even with auto-rez on). You cannot change this. If Darkja hits with the instant death portion on all of your active characters, you are dead, period.

I have no problem with Meteor. I have a problem with Meteor being capable of inflicting 9999 damage to each of your characters with there being literally no way to negate that. It doesn't matter how small the chance of this happening is, that is cheap, not difficult. And, again, remove the 9999 Meteor and he is a really, really easy boss. Setting up to absorb Shadow alone and healing from Ozma and Vivi's Doomsday can be enough to get you through the fight, as long as you don't get hit by the 9999 Meteor.

Hard is a boss you have to plan strategies and tactics around, that you have to know how and when to attack. Cheap is a boss being able to just go "nope, you're dead", which is what Ozma's 9999 Meteor and Curse combination gives him. It doesn't matter how rare it is, the fact that he can do it, and that is the only real thing that can set you back in this fight.

Oh, and don't argue that it's fair because you can do it as well. That doesn't mean it's not cheap, and then too, most enemies at endgame have more than 9999 health.

[Karifean]

Wait, how did I forget? Let's ask someone who's almost vanquished all of them, though he admittedly likes to over-grind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLMcU-6bxsA

Yeah, I watched that video. Can't say I agree with some of his choices though. I'm glad he put Chac as high as he did, because that thing hits really damn hard. If you don't know what you're up against, she'll obliterate you like it was nothing. I wouldn't have put Ozma up there though, for the reasons already outlined in this thread.

[Ultima Shadow]

Yeah, I watched that video. Can't say I agree with some of his choices though. I'm glad he put Chac as high as he did, because that thing hits really damn hard. If you don't know what you're up against, she'll obliterate you like it was nothing. I wouldn't have put Ozma up there though, for the reasons already outlined in this thread.

Watched it too, and I also disagree with that guy completely.

I actually don't remember a whole lot about Chac though, but I'm pretty sure I didn't have any big trouble getting past him/her/it. If I did, I'd probably have remembered it.

"...of course, all of these weaklings are
nothing but mere bugs, easily crushed
and hardly even worth a mention when
compared to me. Superbosses? Pfft!"













"Oh shut up Yukari. You're from a 2D-shooter,
not an RPG, so your bulltrout doesn't count."

[Karifean]

Anyone who dared go into the Via Infinito without using Cat Nip naturally hit the brick wall of Chac. Without the right setups, she is impossible. I would've voted for her except Major Numerus is pure insanity. Remember how much HP you had when you played X-2? Well Numerus hits your entire party for 19000 damage after you've taken a maximum of two turns per character (and only if you're REALLY fast).

[Skyblade]

Y'know, I hear a lot about Chac, but I have to say, I completed the Via Infinito (and Oversouled every Fiend in the game), and I don't ever remember Chac. And I didn't use the Catnip until the last ten floors. When does Chac show up?

[Karifean]

It's the basilisk boss that appears on Level 80 and in random encounters on Levels 81-84. She primarily uses Stony Glare on your characters and occasionally throws in physical attacks that are about as strong as Mega Tonberry's Chef's Knife. Every sixth turn, she uses Heaven's Cataract, which deals massive magic damage to the entire party and greatly lowers your defenses.

Most people either get past her by oversouling her (making her far too easy), stagger-locking her with 3 fast attackers or simply Cat Nipping her to death, praying to god she doesn't shatter your Gunner. Ironically, if you don't go the cheap route, she's probably the easiest to beat if you only use one character as then you won't have to worry about curing your petrified characters. Otherwise, three Mascots can take her on and mostly come out on top.

[Ultima Shadow]

As far as I can remember, I used an Alchemist, a Dark Knight and... "something else" during the later floors. Maybe the last one was a Gunner with catnip, since I just can't remember Chac being a problem at all. If I had been stuck on Chac for even a decent amount of time, I'm sure I'd have remembered it.

[Bloodnight]

Neo Shinryu and Ruby weapon were a real pain in the ass, especially Neo Shinryu.

[Ultima Shadow]

Anyone who dared go into the Via Infinito without using Cat Nip naturally hit the brick wall of Chac. Without the right setups, she is impossible.

IMPOSSIBRU!!!

Edit:

EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBRU!!!



So I'll fall back to my previous statement: "I actually don't remember a whole lot about Chac, but I'm pretty sure I didn't have any big trouble getting past him/her/it. If I did, I'd probably have remembered it" ...since he/she/it apparently isn't impossible at all without the recommended setups.

[Karifean]

Anyone who dared go into the Via Infinito without using Cat Nip naturally hit the brick wall of Chac. Without the right setups, she is impossible.

IMPOSSIBRU!!!

Edit:

EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBRU!!!



So I'll fall back to my previous statement: "I actually don't remember a whole lot about Chac, but I'm pretty sure I didn't have any big trouble getting past him/her/it. If I did, I'd probably have remembered it" ...since he/she/it apparently isn't impossible at all without the recommended setups.

I also fall back on my previous statement: "Without the right setups, she is impossible." I know these videos well and I included those setups in that statement. It may seem like s/he's restricting him/herself in these videos, but they're actually setups that get you through Chac much easier than without it.

If you use just one character, Chac suddenly becomes easier. I know it sounds weird, but not having to worry about Stony Glare at all is a huge relief. That leaves the physical attack and Heaven's Cataract. Physical attack can be negated with a Berserker, Heaven's Cataract is the only dangerous thing left. Again, this is a very specific setup and one of the few that will get you through Chac unscathed.

Mascot I also tend to count as a specific setup because of how hard it is to get (at least in the non-International versions) and how it ridiculously out-powers all other dresspheres in the game. Innate Auto-Shell, Auto-Protect and just overall great stats really put Mascot above everything else. A setup similar to the one in the video is incidentally also how I got through Chac.

Point being, most people playing through the Via Infinito will not think of these setups. 95% of players will never get Mascot. Near to no players will ever think of using the single Berserker setup. People who do hit the brick wall of Chac eventually come up with strategies to beat her - but a very large majority fell back on, say, Cat Nip.

Even if this still doesn't come across as "this is a hard boss", there's not really anything worse to be found in the FF series. It's not like there is a boss in FF you can't play around with.

[Ultima Shadow]

Mascot was that hard to get? *blames his bad FFX-2 memory again*

Well, if the amount of possible setups can range even that much, though, I don't see how Chac would be worse than, say, Ruby Weapon. Ruby Weapon is also a boss fight that, while possible with a variety of strategies, still requires specific strategies/setups to beat. Any random party can't just rush straight in there unprepared and win. Same with Penance etc.

In either case, I personally don't remember Chac standing out as a very hard boss to get past. But yes, all FF bosses can be cheesed completely one way or another.


Edit:

Just saw that Chac can be stagger-locked with the initial dresspheres too. Even if stun-locking, no matter which dresspheres are used, is just another very specific strategy, I'd argue that this is still a far too easily accessible strat to take down Chac for Chac to be considered the hardest.




Editaga:

Oh, and one more thing... "songstress isn't that hard to get, right?"/no mascot version

Say whatever you want about this one, but I am going to laugh out loud at DarkKefka's claim that the battle is impossible without "being cheap" in that YouTube video someone posted.