Quote Originally Posted by NeoCracker View Post
Well, not much else to say really now that I've read your post. Our disagreement on Krellian are simply how well we each feel he is written, and Wilhelm we got entirely different views on him as a character, so it's difficult to even discuss him. We may as well be discussing to completely different people.
We mostly are, though I'm pretty sure my interpretation is the correct one. Wilhelm is a bit of a condescending ass in Episode 3.

Ramsus I can agree I like the premise, but he was never able to do it for me as a villain because all there really was between the two of us was pity. I wont' deny he had more backround then Margulas. In the end though, I put more value in his force of personality and presence, even if his history was lacking in content.
Ramsus to me evolved beyond a simple villain to a tragic figure in the story. I don't think we the player were meant to think of him as a threat for very long. To me, Ramsus gave me something different whereas Margulis' lack of backstory and context made it hard for me to see him as special as his archetype is pretty common. He just doesn't stand out as much, especially when he's competing with better developed villains like Yuriev and Albedo.

The Albedo thing is just something that bothers me a lot less then a giant battle bunny. (Or a giant crucified battle bunny for that matter).
Neither really bothered me to be honest. Both scenes still make me cringe but at least I get a laugh out of the Chu-Chu scene. I never really understood the amount of hate she got from fans, except maybe the same issues VII fans have with Cait Sith being a bit too goofy for their "seriously serious" mature RPG.

The Albedo good guy thing is just semantics and nit picking small trout.
I'm still right.

As for the character pairings, you have no argument from me on Fei and Shion.
I still appreciate Shion as a character, I just felt the writer kind of lost their way with her midway through the story. I think its really hard to write a true flawed hero.

And I see what you are saying with Chaos and Citan, but as a character I really enjoyed Chaos. Lack of development on his story is a bit sad, though at the same time as a Character he works so well. Though the big reason I pick him over Citan is, as awesome as he is, I think he might be too awesome. He always just seem so in control and on top of things, it's hard for me to feel there's much tension or drama in his actions.
The funny thing about this, is that I initially felt that way about chaos, I kinda kept imagining that he could really resolve all of the issues in the story if he got off his ass and did something. Which turns out to be theoretically true, though I really felt they should have developed his situation better. While I can agree that Citan does reek of Mary Sue at times, I feel the fact he's written so his allegiance is always in question makes the fact he's so damn perfect more interesting and menacing.

Also with you on Bart and Jr, Bart just stayed the goof to much.
He does, but I appreciate it, especially since his moments in the plot often lighten the mood after some of the plots more serious moments and I liked that it gave this contrast. To me, this is partly why I do think Xenogears worked better as story for me because had its mind rape serious moments and then would turn around and be goofy making you think everything is going to be alright, so when it goes back to mind rape mode it just gets you more. I feel the failed attempt to liberate Aveh is a great sequence of this, because Bart gets caught, his butler tries to save him only for the machine to malfunction and making the escape more comical and make you think this isn't going to be so bad, only to have Bart's next scene be with Id's first actual introduction in the story and that whole sequence ends everything very bleakly.

Xenosaga was just a bit too serious for its own good at times, to the point where even when it tried to be funny (usually at Allen's expense) it just feels a bit too forced. Granted, I'll agree this contrast of humor and seriousness doesn't always work in Xenogears favor but I can often forgive ruining a moment for humor. It made me laugh, I can't say I wasn't enjoying myself can I?

I disagree with Elly and KOS, but this is mostly because I got a bit bored with Elly, as well as the whole 'pre-destined' love thing. Also though I really enjoyed some of KOS-MOS's sublte growths of personality in game 1, even if 2 didn't expand and 3 kind of jumped ahead with it a bit to fast.
KOS-MOS' whole story revelation just fell flat for me and ultimately ruined her for me, there wasn't much left to fall back on since she's a Rei Ayanami expy and what growth she did get from the first two games is too subtle to really draw any interest for me. I just really like Elly, I felt she does a great job making Fei a better character and I like her story. I actually like the "pre-destined" element but I'm a romantic at heart, yet for me, Elly was more than that, and I still feel even if that part was dropped I would still like her, because her character was well developed and she did really grow and change. I liked that even when she started to suffer from being the helpless damsel in distress she still has moments where she takes charge and shows she's just as competent as the male characters. She's that nice mix of being competent yet still vulnerable.

Finally, we can both agree Yuriev and Albedo do outshine Wilhelm, even if I do like Wilhelm.
My love for Wilhem ended after Episode 3, but I'm happy we can at least agree about something concerning Xenosaga.