Mega Man

[Polnareff]

It's hard to believe that Mega Man has more than 150 games to his name (including the few that were canceled), but it's true.

My favorite ones have to be the Legends games, followed by MM3, Battle Network 6, and X Command Mission. Although I am a fan of most of the MM games except for Rockman & Forte for Wonderswan, and the MM game for DOS.

Command Mission is one that I wish Capcom would make a sequel to. It was a project that they started alongside Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, so it's kind of a short game and devoid of sidequests and such. But the battle system is awesome.

[Electroshock Therapy]

What is the Battle Network series like? I've played the beginning of Battle Network 1 and I know about Network Transmission being a BN/Classic hybrid, but do the sequels offer enough new material?

[Hollycat]

What is the Battle Network series like? I've played the beginning of Battle Network 1 and I know about Network Transmission being a BN/Classic hybrid, but do the sequels offer enough new material?

With the exception of 5, which added nothing, and 6, which was too easy and ended with the villains realising they could just beat up Lan in real life, they all have something special to them, but there is no true continuing storyline, so you can pick up any and go.

[Polnareff]

All the Battle Networks after 1 are very different in terms of what they offer. Battle Network 1 is almost unplayable IMO after playing BN3 and up.

BN2 introduces Style Change, which expands on the original game's elemental armors. BN3 introduces the Navi Customizer, which lets you put power-ups onto a grid for Mega Man to use (this made it into the other BN games after this for the most part). BN4 has Double Soul, which is essentially fusing with another character to get their powers, while still mostly keeping your own. It also introduces Dark Chips, which basically help players who play poorly. But they come with a downside, because they can cause different glitches, such as MM not responding when you control him, or the buster not firing. BN5 introduces Chaos Unison which combines Soul Unison and Dark Chips. It can only be used for one turn and has other stipulations. There are also Liberation Missions, which have you liberate an area from dark power within a time limit. You can play as, depending on which version, Protoman, Colonel, or both when you do these missions, as well as other Navis. BN6 brings in Cross System, which is like Double Soul, except with no chip sacrifices, and it lasts a full battle. You can also, if memory serves, use it at any time. There are also the Beast powers, one where you can channel the power of a Cybeast, the other making you invincible temporarily if you enter a tired state.

The battle mechanics change a lot, but the games themselves are quite similar in other ways. I say, if you're a battle system person first and foremost, then yeah, they offer enough new content. If not, then not really. I'd say skip Battle Chip Challenge and 4.5 Real Operation, though. Oh, and skip Operate Shooting Star, since that's just MMBN1 with a few Star Force references.

[Dr Unne]

I just don't understand it, really. We've already had those types of games, so why go backward when you can go forward. That's why I like 7 and 8. They felt fresh and new. I do agree with many people that Mega Man does go crazy with it's sequels, but they usually always add some new feature to make it different from the last. I think that's why I like the X series so much. They're always changing. That's what keeps me playing them.

Mega Man 9 and 10 had a lot of new stuff in them. There were shops where you could buy new kinds of power-ups, you could unlock new playable characters, the bosses were obviously all new and some of the weapons were pretty unique (a gun that shoots bees!)

The idea is to start with the things that are good, don't change those, and build on them. I'm talking about the 2D early-NES graphic style, the 8 robot masters + Wily game structure, the precise controls, the high difficulty, the unlockable weapons with limited resources, the focus on platforming and timing and pattern-recognition to get through the hard parts. When you start messing with those things, you've got a different game.

More generally: Restrictions can breed creativity. What ways can you make a new Mega Man game? You could start with the idea of the old NES Mega Man games, and then make the very best game of that kind that you can. All Mega Man can do in Mega Man 9 is run, jump, shoot and pick up power-ups. And yet he has a bee gun that can fetch items for him from across the screen. He has a concrete gun that can build temporary steps. He has a tornado gun that can raise platforms that he's standing on. He has a black hole gun that sucks up all nearby enemies.

There are enemies that pick you up and rush you across the screen and slam you into spikes. There's an underwater level where you have to float up the screen on bubbles, and the small ones pop faster than the big ones. There are platforms where your feet stick to them and they rotate, so half the time you're upside-down underneath them. Look how much room for creativity there still is within the framework of the original game!

Many things are same-old-Mega-Man in MM9/10, yet there are still tons of surprises in every level. I'd rather the developers explore that design space to its fullest extent than just randomly add stuff to the game. I don't want crappy pod-racer or side-scrolling shoot-em-up levels. I don't need a bunch of cutscenes and movies to try to shoehorn some kind of terrible plot on top of it. I don't want the graphic style to be radically different. Those things are unnecessary.

Let's say you let Mega Man do wall-kick jumps like Samus in 2D Metroid can do. Suddenly all the platforming becomes way easier. You don't need Rush Coil to get to high platforms. You don't need ladders so much. You don't have to think quite so much about how to access hard-to-reach places. Maybe it's way easier to avoid enemies, and so the enemies have to be faster or more difficult to kill now. Maybe you have to reorient a bunch of levels to be more vertical than horizontal. The whole game is different. Is it a better or worse game? Who knows, but it's not the same game.

I don't mind trying new things. They took Mario from 2D to 3D, and it turns out the 3D ones are super fun. But they also made New Super Mario Bros. for DS, because the classic 2D Mario style of game has strengths of its own and is fun in its own right, and that game was insanely popular. I don't mind trying new experimental Mega Man ideas, but I also want 2D classic Mega Man, because it's a fun kind of game in its own right.

[Electroshock Therapy]

Mega Man 9 and 10 had a lot of new stuff in them. There were shops where you could buy new kinds of power-ups, you could unlock new playable characters, the bosses were obviously all new and some of the weapons were pretty unique (a gun that shoots bees!)

More generally: Restrictions can breed creativity. What ways can you make a new Mega Man game? You could start with the idea of the old NES Mega Man games, and then make the very best game of that kind that you can. All Mega Man can do in Mega Man 9 is run, jump, shoot and pick up power-ups. And yet he has a bee gun that can fetch items for him from across the screen. He has a concrete gun that can build temporary steps. He has a tornado gun that can raise platforms that he's standing on. He has a black hole gun that sucks up all nearby enemies.

There are enemies that pick you up and rush you across the screen and slam you into spikes. There's an underwater level where you have to float up the screen on bubbles, and the small ones pop faster than the big ones. There are platforms where your feet stick to them and they rotate, so half the time you're upside-down underneath them. Look how much room for creativity there still is within the framework of the original game!

Hmm. I either forgot or never knew about some of the features 9 and 10 had to offer. They do seem different and fun for the series. For someone who doesn't like judging a game by its graphics, I seem to have done just that with 9 and 10. I took the NES look at face value and thought it was nothing new but a re-hash of an old style.

But... I still love the rush-shooting and snowboarding sections among other new things Mega Man 8 brought in. It felt familiar yet gave me something new, which I do think is nice when you're 8 games into a series. And I'll be honest. I also like the bad anime cut scenes. Sometimes I like some cheese in my games and the classic series is the perfect one to have them in. So I'm an 8 fan. I just think it's charming in it's own weird way.

Now, I still think classic Mega Man shouldn't be completely restricted to NES style graphics and bare bones basic shoot-em-up gameplay and I still find it weird most fans want just that. In most other game series people would be complaining that it's growing stale. Yet classic Mega Man seems to be in its own world of fandom.

All that being said, you did convince me that 9 and 10 have some great new features and is not a step backward as I thought. And as I'm typing I'm remember some more details I saw in videos. In a span of a minute, I'm tempted to buy them right now.
So, thanks!

Let's say you let Mega Man do wall-kick jumps like Samus in 2D Metroid can do. Suddenly all the platforming becomes way easier. You don't need Rush Coil to get to high platforms. You don't need ladders so much. You don't have to think quite so much about how to access hard-to-reach places. Maybe it's way easier to avoid enemies, and so the enemies have to be faster or more difficult to kill now. Maybe you have to reorient a bunch of levels to be more vertical than horizontal. The whole game is different. Is it a better or worse game? Who knows, but it's not the same game.

Well, you basically described the X series but with wall climb rather than kick. Yet Capcom still made platforming challenging by making you use precise wall climbing and dashing in dangerous bottomless pit or spiked areas. But that's an X series thing and I agree that basic platforming is the classic Mega Man style.

I don't mind trying new things. They took Mario from 2D to 3D, and it turns out the 3D ones are super fun. But they also made New Super Mario Bros. for DS, because the classic 2D Mario style of game has strengths of its own and is fun in its own right, and that game was insanely popular. I don't mind trying new experimental Mega Man ideas, but I also want 2D classic Mega Man, because it's a fun kind of game in its own right.

I understand this as well. I'm also a massive fan of Legend of Zelda and there is still a reason Nintendo continues to make top-down games after it was introduced in 3D. It works, and they always tweak something. Same can be said for Mega Man all the way up to 10. I think my perspective was just wonky or something.

[Ayen]

I haven't played too many Mega Man games, but out of the one I have I have to say Mega Man III, Mega Man X and Mega Man Legends are among my favorites. I used to play Mega Man III for hours on the old computer and I was introduced to the X series when over at my cousins house going through his SNES library. I still have Mega Man Legends in my PlayStation stack.

[edczxcvbnm]

Megaman 2 is clearly the best. Solid level design, great bosses and power ups and a kick ass sound track. Megaman 2 also brought us something that has been missing ever since, bosses that are effected by multiple weapons. Sure, you could use Flashman to bring down Quickman but you could also use Heatman as his power is just as effective. Most of the bosses had 3 weapons that they were weak against. Every other game has gone down to a rote rock -> paper -> scissors routine and I don't like it. It practically forces you to play the game a certain way. I like that in Megaman 2 I am more free to choose my own path and try different things and not go "I don't have the right boss power" You still might not have it but you might have something that can get you through it more easily than the power pellet.

That said, my next favorite is Megaman 5. I thought that 5 had some great level design and some fun bosses. It was nothing special but I really like the overall feel of the game.

I also really like X5 though it has been so long that I can't remember much about it other than I really liked the hell out of it.

I can't wait for Might No. 9 because Capcom is a piece of trout and didn't make a billion dollars with MM9 and 10 so clearly those games are not worth pursing any longer. Go big or go home is ruining games in general.

[Polnareff]

More like Inafune is a piece of trout.

And some of those weapons affecting multiple bosses/more than one weapon affecting them in MM2 was a result of several glitches that made it into MM2.

[Tigmafuzz]

Mega Man 2, Mega Man X, Mega Man X4, Megaman Legends.

The idea is to start with the things that are good, don't change those, and build on them. I'm talking about the 2D early-NES graphic style, the 8 robot masters + Wily game structure, the precise controls, the high difficulty, the unlockable weapons with limited resources, the focus on platforming and timing and pattern-recognition to get through the hard parts. When you start messing with those things, you've got a different game.

More generally: Restrictions can breed creativity. What ways can you make a new Mega Man game? You could start with the idea of the old NES Mega Man games, and then make the very best game of that kind that you can. All Mega Man can do in Mega Man 9 is run, jump, shoot and pick up power-ups. And yet he has a bee gun that can fetch items for him from across the screen. He has a concrete gun that can build temporary steps. He has a tornado gun that can raise platforms that he's standing on. He has a black hole gun that sucks up all nearby enemies.

There are enemies that pick you up and rush you across the screen and slam you into spikes. There's an underwater level where you have to float up the screen on bubbles, and the small ones pop faster than the big ones. There are platforms where your feet stick to them and they rotate, so half the time you're upside-down underneath them. Look how much room for creativity there still is within the framework of the original game!

Ingenuity is born of limitation. Which is why the percentage of modern games that are complete trout is higher than the percentage of older games that are complete trout.

[Electroshock Therapy]

More like Inafune is a piece of trout.

And some of those weapons affecting multiple bosses/more than one weapon affecting them in MM2 was a result of several glitches that made it into MM2.

How is Inafune trout? I don't know much details about Capcom and their goings-on inside, but I understand the only thing Inafune did was leave Capcom. From what I gather, I don't blame him because Capcom was going in a downward spiral and pissing of fans from several of their series.

[Bolivar]

Trust me, don't get Polnareff started on Inafune.

I don't like him because he kept trash talking about Japan and decided the solution was to make westernized games instead of empowering Japan to be Japan.

[edczxcvbnm]

More like Inafune is a piece of trout.

And some of those weapons affecting multiple bosses/more than one weapon affecting them in MM2 was a result of several glitches that made it into MM2.

If those are indeed glitches (I couldn't find anything claiming this) then they are a God send.

I actually agree with most of what Inafune has stated and a couple of years after he made those remarks a lot of industry faces in Japan have echoed those sentiments to an extent. He might be a bit harsh and maybe his idea for solutions isn't entirely correct but his criticism is...or was? I think now Japan the West are splitting more and more in terms of at home play vs on the go play.

[Bolivar]

^ they are, and truth be told alot of these Japanese portable games are absolutely dominating Western console games when it comes to gameplay and creativity. Case in point, Zelda which literally came out just a few days ago.

Inafune's critiques were that eastern games were reusing old concepts and lacking in new ideas but to pretend this is a symptom of only Japanese development is more than a little silly.

[Skyblade]

^ they are, and truth be told alot of these Japanese portable games are absolutely dominating Western console games when it comes to gameplay and creativity. Case in point, Zelda which literally came out just a few days ago.

Inafune's critiques were that eastern games were reusing old concepts and lacking in new ideas but to pretend this is a symptom of only Japanese development is more than a little silly.

Yeah, sorry, Inafune is dead wrong there. Does the name "Madden" ring a bell? Or any of the other thousands of franchises that are running nothing but completely non-innovative sequels for the past decade?

Even among sequels, Japan has had a history, especially recently, of adding in some great innovation, while Western games have been so stagnant and boring.