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  • Terra

    6 37.50%
  • Sabin

    10 62.50%
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Thread: Grudge Match - Terra vs. Sabin

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Even at the very end you see them showing off his strength during the escape. Him and Shaodw fighting in the Imperial Camp, defeating several troops on their way trough. Really, most your cast could believably, story wise, defeat fifty imperial soldiers even prior to unlocking the power of espers.
    That's assuming in-game animations of fights are comparable to the way fights play out in real time, which is not necessarily the case. In-universe the number of soldiers Terra was able to defeat in such a short time is treated as a huge deal, so it's quite possible that real time is different from in-game time.
    No one said Terra's power wasn't a bid deal.

    And agian in response to the Vargas fight, if you did not already know the Pummel command, it takes a while before it tells you the input, so as intended the fight isn't immediately over. Also, you can't say that Sabin was at his peak at that point either. They both went through a lot and grew a lot after this.
    "As intended"? That's only the first time you play the game.
    So we are to assume that different play throughs of the game the story changes. Gotcha.
    Besides, as I said, you're the one assuming the party would even have been capable of getting back into the region of the fight within sixty seconds. If we assume that in-game steps are as large as they appear to be, then the direction they're depicted as having been blown could easily have been more time than they could traverse in such a period.


    Either way, Sabin whithstood an attack they could not. If they could get back fast or not is entirely irrelevant. If we say the fight was really over fast, that means Sabin beat Vargas in no time flat. If it's a longer time then that, Vargas's attack had to be immense to blow them back that far. That says even more for Sabin's endurance and strength.


    Sabin's durability and strength is showcased more then Terra's because they intended for him to be shown as the more durable one. Terra was showcased as the half esper magical power house.
    You're the one saying that durability means anything in a fight like this. This doesn't really do anything to counteract anything I've been saying. I'm the one saying that all Terra has to do is swing the Ultima Weapon once.
    Alright, fine, lets keep playing mechanics game. Merit Award, Ultima weapon, Hermes Sandles (Depending on which version you are playing. Sabin has superior Speed, HP, and strength. He will hit first, and even if it's not enough to kill Terra, no way will her Ultima weapon be doing enough damage to still kill Sabin (Who, mind you, due to his Vigor/strength can hit for Max damage with Ultima weapon before Terra). And even if you say Terra can make up for that with Esper bonus's, Sabin is growing his stats too. No way will she land the first hit.

    Furthermore, the group you fight Punbaba with is shown to at least be able to stand up to him, making him retreat the first time. The second fight, it's not even Terra alone who fights him, and it won't always be Sabin blown away. If that was meant to show anything in battle, it was that Punbaba was still tough enough to be able to beat you, at which point Terra came to your aide to help you fight. The Punbaba fight never ends up being Terra Vs. Punbaba one on one.
    It can be Terra alone who fights him if you only bring two party members, and even if you bring Sabin and two other party members there is a two in three chance that he will be blown away. Furthermore, the fight pretty clearly is intended to show how powerful Humbaba is, and what a powerhouse Terra becomes at her peak.
    The game never intends for you to gimp yourself to go into a fight. Yes, Punbaba is shown to be strong, but just strong enough that he can in fact beat your party, though the first fight sets up your party can in fact win. Were the fight intended to be just Terra Vs. Punbaba, they could have done the same thing they did with Vargas and have everyone blown away. They made the conscious choice not too.

    That scene was to show Terra regaining the will to fight, and come in to help the party win, not solo Humbaba.


    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB
    Too much serious
    It happens.

    Edit: Quick note, Ultima weapon would depend on the version of the game you are playing if Merit Award would allow it.
    Last edited by NeoCracker; 05-23-2013 at 11:44 PM.

  2. #32
    pirate heartbreaker The Man's Avatar
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    Either way, Sabin whithstood an attack they could not.
    And later, Terra withstands an attack that Sabin very often doesn't withstand. And I could say exactly the same about his lack of participation in the fight after that point - assuming the attack isn't so powerful that he's blown clear beyond where he could participate in it again, he says "Ah, Terra's got this". So, again, the argument you're making could easily be thrown back on Sabin.

    Alright, fine, lets keep playing mechanics game. Merit Award, Ultima weapon, Hermes Sandles (Depending on which version you are playing. Sabin has superior Speed, HP, and strength. He will hit first, and even if it's not enough to kill Terra, no way will her Ultima weapon be doing enough damage to still kill Sabin (Who, mind you, due to his Vigor/strength can hit for Max damage with Ultima weapon before Terra). And even if you say Terra can make up for that with Esper bonus's, Sabin is growing his stats too. No way will she land the first hit.
    There is an easy way she will land the first hit, since their speed stats are only four points different to begin with, and that is a trivially easy stat to make up, especially since Terra is likely to be in the party for a lot of the more advanced areas of the game after the party gains the Odin esper, where her ability to multi-cast powerful spells will make her a valuable asset. Let's keep in mind that Sabin's biggest strength in his natural form is Blitz, which caps out at 9999 damage (although he does have some Blitzes that target multiple enemies, but against enemies that are immune to fire and wind damage, these are useless); Terra, by contrast, can multi-cast chains of spells that can wipe out enemies with more than 9999 HP with ease, and simply Osmose magic when she runs out. Obviously Sabin can do this too but his natural magic power is 11 points below Terra's, so he has a lot of ground to make up. Which isn't to say it's worthless to raise his magic power, since most of his Blitzes are dependent upon his magic power, but the player is bound to be raising Terra's magic power too.

    Obviously if you want to throw Merit Award on to gimp the balance of the fight then that's going to throw the fight in Sabin's direction, but I don't know why anyone would waste a relic slot with one of those when they could Genji+Offering the most powerful weapons on one character to get the most use out of them. It's pretty obvious that when playing to the characters' own innate strengths Terra has a very realistic shot of winning, and by the time you can get the Offering Terra will be hitting for close enough to max damage with Ultima Weapon+Genji that it won't be worth wasting a relic slot with Merit Award on another character, unless you're running a low-level game.

    Further, Terra can easily hit for peak damage with simple attacks earlier than Sabin, if she is morphed. If you're going to throw that many advantages to Sabin while disregarding Terra's obvious strengths, that makes it pretty obvious that you're trying to throw the fight towards Sabin.

    The game never intends for you to gimp yourself to go into a fight. Yes, Punbaba is shown to be strong, but just strong enough that he can in fact beat your party, though the first fight sets up your party can in fact win. Were the fight intended to be just Terra Vs. Punbaba, they could have done the same thing they did with Vargas and have everyone blown away. They made the conscious choice not too.

    That scene was to show Terra regaining the will to fight, and come in to help the party win, not solo Humbaba.
    Regardless, it's also clearly intended to show how much stronger Humbaba is than the other party members, and the fact that Terra can't get blown away is pretty clearly intended to show her increased strength at her peak form (which she cannot reach until this fight - she gains the ability to Morph far more frequently after this fight).

    Couple other things that occurred to me: Cosmos has the ability to draw any champion from the FFVI universe she wants to. Guess which one she chooses? Also, Dissidia strikes me as pretty much the FF universe's equivalent of a cage match, and Terra pretty obviously fares quite well for herself.

    Not that I've actually played it, and I hear Terra is horribly OOC for a large portion of it, but regardless, I think it does reveal quite a bit about what the FF writers think of the strengths of their own characters.
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  3. #33
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    Battle commences. Sabin gets first turn. Sabin uses Bum Rush. Battle ends. I don't see why this is so difficult.

  4. #34
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    Oh, look, Sabin won again. By an even bigger margin now that he didn't have to deal with the other guys in the fight.
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  5. #35
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    I understand that Terra is powerful and pro-women and all, but Sabin is designed for this very hypothetical!

  6. #36
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    Damn, I missed this finale. At least the right person (Sabin) won, as badass as Terra is generally.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Either way, Sabin whithstood an attack they could not.
    And later, Terra withstands an attack that Sabin very often doesn't withstand. And I could say exactly the same about his lack of participation in the fight after that point - assuming the attack isn't so powerful that he's blown clear beyond where he could participate in it again, he says "Ah, Terra's got this". So, again, the argument you're making could easily be thrown back on Sabin.

    Alright, fine, lets keep playing mechanics game. Merit Award, Ultima weapon, Hermes Sandles (Depending on which version you are playing. Sabin has superior Speed, HP, and strength. He will hit first, and even if it's not enough to kill Terra, no way will her Ultima weapon be doing enough damage to still kill Sabin (Who, mind you, due to his Vigor/strength can hit for Max damage with Ultima weapon before Terra). And even if you say Terra can make up for that with Esper bonus's, Sabin is growing his stats too. No way will she land the first hit.
    There is an easy way she will land the first hit, since their speed stats are only four points different to begin with, and that is a trivially easy stat to make up, especially since Terra is likely to be in the party for a lot of the more advanced areas of the game after the party gains the Odin esper, where her ability to multi-cast powerful spells will make her a valuable asset. Let's keep in mind that Sabin's biggest strength in his natural form is Blitz, which caps out at 9999 damage (although he does have some Blitzes that target multiple enemies, but against enemies that are immune to fire and wind damage, these are useless); Terra, by contrast, can multi-cast chains of spells that can wipe out enemies with more than 9999 HP with ease, and simply Osmose magic when she runs out. Obviously Sabin can do this too but his natural magic power is 11 points below Terra's, so he has a lot of ground to make up. Which isn't to say it's worthless to raise his magic power, since most of his Blitzes are dependent upon his magic power, but the player is bound to be raising Terra's magic power too.

    Obviously if you want to throw Merit Award on to gimp the balance of the fight then that's going to throw the fight in Sabin's direction, but I don't know why anyone would waste a relic slot with one of those when they could Genji+Offering the most powerful weapons on one character to get the most use out of them. It's pretty obvious that when playing to the characters' own innate strengths Terra has a very realistic shot of winning, and by the time you can get the Offering Terra will be hitting for close enough to max damage with Ultima Weapon+Genji that it won't be worth wasting a relic slot with Merit Award on another character, unless you're running a low-level game.

    Further, Terra can easily hit for peak damage with simple attacks earlier than Sabin, if she is morphed. If you're going to throw that many advantages to Sabin while disregarding Terra's obvious strengths, that makes it pretty obvious that you're trying to throw the fight towards Sabin.


    Alright, rather then respond to every point here, I'm just going to say this (I will say, I was a bit flippant with my arugments there anyway. ). Locke can, before anyone else, hit for max damage, and is easily the games fastest character. He'll be one shotting Terra before there is ever a need for max damage to be taken into account.

    Going by in game mechanics, without tossing around weird relics and accessories, your arguments are going to put Locke as the winner every time. Just let that sit for a while.

    The game never intends for you to gimp yourself to go into a fight. Yes, Punbaba is shown to be strong, but just strong enough that he can in fact beat your party, though the first fight sets up your party can in fact win. Were the fight intended to be just Terra Vs. Punbaba, they could have done the same thing they did with Vargas and have everyone blown away. They made the conscious choice not too.

    That scene was to show Terra regaining the will to fight, and come in to help the party win, not solo Humbaba.
    Regardless, it's also clearly intended to show how much stronger Humbaba is than the other party members, and the fact that Terra can't get blown away is pretty clearly intended to show her increased strength at her peak form (which she cannot reach until this fight - she gains the ability to Morph far more frequently after this fight).

    Couple other things that occurred to me: Cosmos has the ability to draw any champion from the FFVI universe she wants to. Guess which one she chooses? Also, Dissidia strikes me as pretty much the FF universe's equivalent of a cage match, and Terra pretty obviously fares quite well for herself.

    Not that I've actually played it, and I hear Terra is horribly OOC for a large portion of it, but regardless, I think it does reveal quite a bit about what the FF writers think of the strengths of their own characters.
    Again I point out your party forced Punbaba to retreat the first time without the aide of Terra. He wasn't an obstical that was insurmountable without Terra, he was someone that was a match for your Party, and Terra jumping in pushed things in your favor. Definately she is powerful here, no doubt. But not some towering god amongst the rest of your party.

    And Dissidia's cast was based off main characters, and in FF VI Terra is the closest thing to that in the game. In addition, she has the closest link to Kefka, the Villain, so in that regard she also made more sense. Hell, if you look at some of the old interviews it was Kain they wanted from FF IV, even though Cecil is pretty clearly the strongest in that game. The reason they went with Cecil over Kain was the connection to the villain, and him being the main character. Dissidia's choices were clearly not made with regards to power in mind.

    Also, not once in this argument have you even bothered taking into consideration the fact this is a cage match. I've already stated, mind you, outside of the confines of the cage, Terra would win it.

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