Grudge Match - Terra vs. Sabin

[Flying Mullet]

terra4.gifGrudge Matchsabin4.gif ---

In the finale of the anything goes Final Fantasy VI Royale Rumble in Miranda, Terra, Sabin, Shadow, Umaro and Cyan entered the cage match ready to brawl. However, it became apparent very quickly that Cyan and Umaro were outclassed in this elite group of fighters. Cyan's age ended up being his demise as he couldn't react in time to Umaro tossing him around the cage like a rag-doll, being finished by a rather brutal flying elbow by esper-form Terra. Umaro was the next to drop, his slow movements no match for Shadow, who used his manager, Interceptor, to distract Umaro, then landed a quick series of sucker punches in quick succession to finish Umaro. With three remaining contenders standing and all dangerous, Sabin and Terra decided to team up against Shadow, with Terra using her flying Esper form to surprise Shadow by flying him into the air and Sabin finishing the job with his now legendary move, the Bum Rush. As an exhausted Esper Terra landed and turned back into human form, Sabin pulled the largest surprise upset of the evening, suplexing the entire cage with Terra still in it, demolishing the cage and any with it any hopes of Terra winning. Speaking with Terra after the fight, she was more than irate, "An entire cage? That's a coward's move. he wasn't man enough to take me in the cage so he ran away and hid behind that suplex of his. It just goes to show you that he's a coward and a cheat!" Sabin had nothing nice to say about Terra's performance as well, "Must be nice to fly around and avoid your competition. This is a cage match, not Cirque du Soleil." The tensions between these two have been building ever since the end of that fateful Royal Rumble and it looks like its set to explode tonight at the Vector Arena. You've got front row seats and hope you're ready for the rematch that's got EoFF abuzz! ---

Grudge Match Rules

The match takes place in a covered cage 10 feet tall No suplexing the cage

[Laddy]

Terra morphs. Casts tons of spells. Terra wins.

[blackmage_nuke]

Reflect or mute will deal with that

Also in the time it takes to morph Sabin will pummel her, not to mention the time it takes to cast the first spell. And dont bring up the "its not about game mechanics" arguement. It's very clear that casting spells TAKES TIME. You very clearly see them chanting. You cant just fart out an Ultima at will

[DownDiagonalLeftA]

We're gonna act like Terra wasn't getting whooped by Vargas in a brawl when she had the help of Locke AND Edgar until Sabin came in and made Vargas his bitch?

We're gonna act like Terra didn't get whooped by Phunbaba until Sabin (while Celes cheered on the sidelines) came through and beat the Fenrir magicite out of him? And don't lie and try to say you skipped getting Sabin before fighting Phunbaba.

We're gonna act like Sabin didn't have Kefka running in the military camp? Kefka was willing to burn down an entire castle to confront Terra, but didn't want to have to duke it out with Sabin?


We're gonna act like when Terra said Sabin looked like a bodybuilder who strayed too far from his gym, she didn't really mean "damn, I hope I never have to fight in a cage match with him".

SMURF OUTTA HERE.

[The Man]

We're gonna act like Terra was even remotely close to being at the height of her powers at the time of the Vargas duel?

We're gonna act like Terra didn't have a pretty clear case of PTSD at the time the first Phunbaba fight occurred and didn't single-handedly defeat him on the second go-round, becoming even more powerful afterwards?

We're gonna act like Kefka is even remotely sane and his perception of threats is even remotely credible?

We're gonna act like Terra isn't the one noted to have blown through fifty Imperial soldiers at a point long before she reached her peak combat prowess?

Not to mention Terra has access to better weapons than Sabin and can morph to double her damage and halve the amount of damage she'll take from Blitzes (except for Pummel and Suplex) so even if we're going to pretend magic isn't going to be an advantage, she's still no slouch in physical combat. Oh, and, as the OP mentions, she can fly. Which kind of puts a crimp in Sabin's hopes of suplexing her, unless the Vector Arena has a roof.


Anyway, here's a simple rundown of how the match would actually go:

* Terra strikes with Ultima Weapon
* Match ends

[DownDiagonalLeftA]

We're gonna act like Terra was even remotely close to being at the height of her powers at the time of the Vargas duel?

We're gonna act like Terra didn't have a pretty clear case of PTSD at the time the first Phunbaba fight occurred and didn't single-handedly defeat him on the second go-round, becoming even more powerful afterwards?

We're gonna act like Kefka is even remotely sane and his perception of threats is even remotely credible?

We're gonna act like Terra isn't the one noted to have blown through fifty Imperial soldiers at a point long before she reached her peak combat prowess?

Not to mention Terra has access to better weapons than Sabin and can morph to double her damage and halve the amount of damage she'll take from Blitzes (except for Pummel and Suplex) so even if we're going to pretend magic isn't going to be an advantage, she's still no slouch in physical combat. Oh, and, as the OP mentions, she can fly. Which kind of puts a crimp in Sabin's hopes of suplexing her, unless the Vector Arena has a roof.


Anyway, here's a simple rundown of how the match would actually go:

* Terra strikes with Ultima Weapon
* Match ends

1) At that point in the game, she was already strong enough to beat 50 imperial soldiers, yet couldn't beat Vargas with help? Makes me wonder the caliber of these "soldiers" she fried. Not too mention Sabin wasn't at the peak of his power at that point either.

2) Terra does not "single handedly" defeat Phunbaba. That didn't happen.

3) Yes.

4) See number 1.

5) Pretty sure the original post says the match will take place in a covered 10 foot tall cage, so yes it has a roof, and no flying isn't an advantage.

6) As Sabin is faster, he'd get the jump on her before she ever had the chance to morph or cast a spell.

...and who says she gets Atma weapon? Would sure be hypocritical if she called Sabin a coward like the OP said, and then turned around and used the strongest weapon in the world on him. If she could even hit him with it.

[The Man]

1. As I pointed out in the previous thread, the extent of damage Vargas does to Terra is blowing her out of the field of combat. She is completely unharmed. This does not speak particularly highly of his power. It is not so much that Terra is incapable of defeating Vargas as that the AI won't let her (and if memory serves, if she is levelled up enough at that point in the game, which is admittedly highly unlikely due to the fact that the Lethe river exploit occurs after that fight, she actually can).

The game notes that the soldiers she fries are "fifty of the Empire's best soldiers", for whatever that's worth. The Imperial soldiers the party fights aren't particularly strong, but they're also mostly grunts, so they can't really be taken as indicative of the strength of the Empire's best soldiers.

2. Humbaba blows two party members away, using exactly the kind of attack Vargas uses. This can include Sabin if he is included in the party. Guess who he can't blow away? Terra.

3. Then you are disregarding basically all of Kefka's characterisation. Not to mention that Kefka clearly runs away so he can poison Doma, not because he is afraid of the party.

5. Right, I missed that somehow.

6. >implying that speed stats mean a goddamn thing in a cage match, or that a four-point speed difference can't have been made up through Esper stat bonuses. In an actual cage match Terra would slice the Ultima Weapon through him while he was trying to suplex her. And how is it hypocritical to play to one's strengths? Terra has swordsmanship training. Sabin does not. That leaves him unable to wield the strongest weapons of the game. If we're evaluating characters for their actual strengths in combat, not allowing them to play to their strengths is stupid.

[The Man]

A few other things:

• Reflect, noted above, doesn't block Ultima and Meteor. Terra can also cast Reflect on herself and bounce other spells off herself, though with Ultima and Meteor there is basically no need to do this.
• Mute doesn't make a difference if Sabin doesn't have time to cast it, not to mention it is easily dispelled with items. And are we really going to pretend that mute is likely to be his first move when he's a lot more likely to go on the offensive with Blitzes (which also take time to perform, I might add)?
• The likelihood that Terra wouldn't morph before the match even starts is pretty slim. There is nothing in the rules suggesting she can't do this.

[Greatermaximus]

The general consensus is Terra's morph is what gives her the edge though temporary.

My signature has Terra's close max defense. Sabin, without a relic slot, can not use heavy armor from what I can remember. If we remove magic from both of them and the 9999 hp cap, Terra would win.

The exception is they had hp that's very high. Say into the millions and you gave them both a dirk. Sabin's Blitz might beat out the fight command while Terra's morph would end at some point.

I'd say Terra is stronger but Sabin can endure longer. It depends on the situation. But I might as well vote out of bias. I'm also curious what the poll accomplishes besides having fun?

[Slothy]

Sabin suplexed a train. Your opinions are invalid.

[Loony BoB]

Still gonna treat this as a proper cage match and not a swords and magic match. Sabin still wins.

If it's a swords and magic match, there is no point whatsoever in having a cage in the first place.

Sabin doesn't suplex the cage. Sabin suplexes Terra. Bam.

EDIT: I also find the suggestion that Terra was irate after the match completely unrealistic as she would have been too busy feeling sorry for herself. She's clearly acting up for the cameras. Just can't put that kind of thing on, it showed. Immediately after the cameras switched off, people used their phones to capture Terra running away and crying for Mummy.

[blackmage_nuke]

Terra running away and crying for Mummy.

Wow, talk about insensitive Loony BoB...her mother is dead

[NeoCracker]

Alright The Man, you wanna argue mechanics? You can easilly get Sabin hitting max damage with Bum Rush. You can easily get Terra hitting max with any spell in the game. The only thing that matters in a fight now is speed, which Sabin wins on.

And Terra, in terms of mechanics, cannot morph before a fight, not that it matters. In a mechanics argument, she can still hit for max. Once again, the fight hinges soley on who goes first. This is why a mechanics argument is dumb.

Dropping Mechanics, this depends solely on the rules of the cage match. If we go bob's no magic route, of course Sabin wins it hands down. With Magic, the confines of the Cage does lend it'self to Sabin. He is able to easily climb at high speeds, so I see him pulling a Vega and still being able to strike Terra mid-air without much hassle. Not to mention Aura Bolt and Windslash, possibly Fire Dance, all lend him to being able to fight her.

Again, being confined to a cage is at his advantage as Terra's Arial mobility is hindered do to space issues. Still though, Terra's magic prowess is intense, seemingly at full force she is able to level houses when unrestrained. (Of course, it's hard to tell if her power is as destructive when under control, as the game doesn't go into it. I would imagine the unrestrained and out of countrol might is stronger, as the game only really depicts Espers as really scary durring such a state.)

Sabin having martial training that seems far superior to Terra's means he's not likely to be missing much, if at all. Terra has excessive magical force behind her, and can pretty much carpet bomb the guy. In terms of damage output, I think Terra is shown to be higher, but at the same time Sabin's fortitude is intense, definately more so then Terra.

So, ignoring Mechanics and just focusing on the story and character, it comes down to who can withstand the punishment longer. So, in the confines of the cage, I give this one to Sabin.

Were the cage not a factor, however, I don't think it's much a contest, Terra would win it.

[Loony BoB]

To be fair, Neo, have you seen Sabin jump around during his attacks? Guy has some leap on him.

Terra running away and crying for Mummy.

Wow, talk about insensitive Loony BoB...her mother is dead

So she'll cry even harder.

[Flying Mullet]

And she basically carries her father's urn around. Definitely a chick with issues.
(SPOILER)She's probably a firecracker in the sack.