Explain the Balthier/Ashe thing to me.

[Fynn]

If you want to, there are many little things that you can read into. Ashe and Balthier are among the only characters who interact privately about personal discussions (Balthier revealing that his father is Doctor Cid at Phon shore, for instance). In the background of some scenes when either Reddas or Al-Cid flirt with Ashe, you can see Balthier reacting with grimaces and annoyed looks, which some people might interpret as jealousy. Additionally, Ashe is the one shown to have the most emotional reaction when Balthier stays behind to save Fran. Balthier returning Ashe's wedding ring and Ashe crying at the reveal that Balthier is still alive also gets pointed out.

Aside from the canonical pairing of Vaan and Penelo, the Ashe/Balthier has more "evidence" than most other pairings, but at best it's a subplot, and never a fully-realized one. They bicker in a way vaguely reminiscent of how children tease each other when they like one another, and there's some pretty good evidence for at least a mutual attraction, but pushing much further than that is strictly in the realm of fan fiction, I think.

While I see your point, I disagree. I believe that she may have just warmed up to him as a person, not necessarily a love interest, due to some common ground in their backstory. At best, she could have been attracted to him, but in an unrequited way. Remember how he gives her back the ring? He leaves it in a letter. After rewatching some of the scenes, I got the impression that the letter might be saying "Sorry, I'm just not that into you." However, during the ending, Penelo says Ashe misses Basch a lot, so...

Some scenes have also further reinforced Balthier/Fran for me. Besides the Pharos scene I put up earlier, there was the ending sequence and the scene right before entering Eruyt, where they do behave like a long-term couple. Also, whether we like it or not (and I know we mostly don't ), Revenant Wings is canon. I remember some NPC mentioning Balthier often takes Fran on the Strahl to go stargazing. Plus, there's the whole Feol Viera thing. I remember them being quite personal about it.

But again, RW aside, FFXII is subtle about its romance and while I still believe there is more evidence for Fran and Balthier, I can now see where the Balthier/Ashe thing comes from. Thanks, Ouch!

[Quindiana Jones]

In the background of some scenes when either Reddas or Al-Cid flirt with Ashe, you can see Balthier reacting with grimaces and annoyed looks, which some people might interpret as jealousy.

When people ask me why I think XII is one of the best games in the entire series', I will use this as a perfect example of the excellent character design, creation and development.

[Ouch!]

Vaan and Penelo got together in the sequel.

I am aware. This is why I said "Aside from the canonical pairing of Vaan and Penelo...."

While I see your point, I disagree.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sold on it either, but I just wanted to point out that there is far more subtext to support a bubbling Ashe and Balthier pairing than is usually necessary to get people to start shipping.

I'm more inclined to just agree that it's all evidence that the character development in Final Fantasy XII isn't anywhere near as bad as people insist. Frankly, I'd argue that the development is far better than in most Final Fantasy titles (and really most JRPGs). Popular contemporary Japanese media (be it anime, video games, etc.) by in large tends to be pretty heavy-handed with its character "development" to the point where it bludgeons the viewer/player over the head with major turning points for characters. Final Fantasy XII is far more subtle (and consequently more realistic) in its handling of its characters. Nobody goes from being the cold loner who discovers friendship by the end of the game. Instead, the characters have nuanced interactions with one another and with the world around them. They might change, but not significantly. I think that FFXII is a better game for it.

[Fynn]

I totally agree. Though I can also see how the target demographic didn't get it - considering how used to the processed pulp (see X) they are, the nuances here could have gone over their heads. I guess the reason this was so polarizing is because it should have been marketed to a different audience. Still, corny romance has its place, and so does subtle character development, I guess Both seem to be enough for shippers.

[JudgeBr]

Forgive me if I cast magick arise upon this thread, can't help it, just lay my hands on this game (finally!)

I haven't finish the game yet, ex-judge magister Reddas just welcomed in the party and Genji Gloves still a fresh egg in my inventory. (it's because that trout Disma, I can't continue my pursue!)

So far, I don't really think that Ashe and Balthier have relationship. But about platonic romance, I can't really sure about it. I know people like Wizzard Fynn tend to believe what eyes can see, but these people sometimes missed many aspects in life, especially things that more than meet the eyes. These people are hard to convince because they tend to believe in their own perceptions, no matter how believable the reasoning. So, I won't even try to change or convince or debate your kind that there was really something with Balthier and Ashe. (meanwhile I don't really sure myself)

But if there's something why I agree that Balthier and Ashe are probably have romantic connection(not relationship), it's not because both are the most popular male and female role in the story. If you ask me which are the most good looking/interesting character in this game, I'd say it's Basch/Noah and Fran/the Vieras. Balthier is good looking because he's full of confident and well groomed. I'm pretty sure if Basch change his clothing and smile a little bit, girls will swooned over him and forget Balthier. therefore, if you think that I pair Balthier and Ashe because both are popular, you are wrong (at least in minor case, which is me).

About Balthier/Ashe,
1. Personality match
something fun about both are Balthier's sarcasm and Ashe's direct personality. Balthier is easy-going, Ashe is a very serious and dedicated. This contra-traits made them complete each others, because they get along well. I notice this especially in some little conversations between them, especially in Leviathan when Fran went berserk.

Balthier : I always knew Fran didn't take well to being tied up. I just never knew how much." (turns to Ashe) "How about you?"

it's a double meaning joke about sexual fetism, sign of attraction. (I won't joke like that to a girl who I don't find attractive, don't know about you). And Ashe's personality also describe well here by this short-innocent-reply "I like Fran's idea", she have no clue about the double meaning joke lol.
and sometimes Ashe says something double meaning too (unintentionally) like "you're a sky pirate, aren't you? then steal me" I know, she don't mean another thing than that, she's a very direct person like Vaan does, but still, that's something interesting that could leads into romantic issue (implicitly)

2. Balthier's nervousness
when Al-cid invite Ashe to Rozzaria, we can see Balthier looks nervous/upset. according to Fran, who call him "Mr Spotlight" in other games, that's probably because Al-cid stole his parts

3. Balthier in Bahamut
upon learning Balthier stays in Bahamut, Ashe took it personal. could be because he's her friend, could be because she has feeling. but whatever it is, it's definitely personal and she don't want to loose someone important.

4. No time for Sthrall's sunset
I watch a scene in youtube about RW, when Ashe and Balthier talk about her vissit to Rozzaria. she compares Rozzarian's sunset (which she really appreciate) and The Sthrall's sunset (which she have no time to appreciate). Could be sign of ending of both platonic relationship (she choose Al-cid), which indicates that there was something personal between them (in FFXII). but since I haven't play RW (and I don't think I will ever do), I won't talk much about this.

======================

that's all my points about Balthier-Ashe. If it will be dramatic like suddenly a lightning struck Balthier and he left his freedom to marry Ashe and be a king of Dalmasca (if this really happen, it will be very OOC), it's still good. I think Balthier and Ashe is cool. But to be honest, the perfect partner for Balthier is none other than Fran. they share a deep respect, same energy, same vibration, a very deep trust (remember when Balthier fearlessly jump out off bridge with Vaan, and Fran catch him safe and sound). They are a very mature couple I ever seen. And as implicit Balthier-Ashe's "hints", Balthier-Fran's hints also exist. even the forest jealous of a hume who took Fran away (probably refer to Balthier.

That's all my points about Balthier-Ashe. romance is always interesting, especially the implicit one.