Sympathetic Main Villain

[Raistlin]

I agree with The Man to the extent that I originally endorsed the Jenova Control theory of Sephiroth. But even if that theory was not explicitly rejected by everything since then, it was horribly and inadequately developed in the game itself. Sephiroth had a lot of potential to be a multidimensional, sympathetic villain. But he didn't turn out that way, which I consider to be one of the many examples of lost opportunities by the FFVII writers.

Vayne was understandable and had more depth than your typical FF villain, but he wasn't very sympathetic. Kefka is not remotely sympathetic, despite being a great villain.

[The Man]

Basically, yes, Kefka is tragic, but not remotely sympathetic. The same goes, to a lesser extent, with Sephiroth, but as you said, there were a number of missed storytelling opportunities in FFVII that left him a much less tragic and/or sympathetic and/or multidimensional and/or identifiable-with villain than he could have been.

[champagne supernova]

Considering that most FF villains tend to want to destroy the entire world by the end, they kind of lose all characteristics that make them sympathetic and relatable. Sephiroth and Ultimecia did it to further their own goals, whereas the rest tended to be misguided nihilists. Except for Vayne, who wanted to control the world.

[Chris]

Tragedy can induce sympathy, but total insanity, cannot.

Kefka was tragic as some have pointed out, but how anyone could ever feel any kind of sympathy towards him is completely beyond me. He enjoyed every single cruel act he ever commited, and not once did he show any kind of remorse.

He was evil incarnate, and comparable to Hitler in a sense.

[Dr. rydrum2112]

I don't think she killed herself in front of him. And I don't think they were exiled. Everything seems to support he grew up in Guadosalam.

No, she was amazing. She knew that she could protect her son AND Spira better if she SACRIFICED HER LIVING BODY AND TRAPPED HER SOUL IN A STATUE FOR ETERNITY. That's not being terrible, that's being completely selfless.

EDIT: I did a search, and you're right about him being exiled. But I've still got nothing to show that his mother killed herself in front of him.

I thought his mom was turned into the aeon anima?

Edit: I think Caius was the among the most sympathetic.

[Forsaken Lover]

She became Seymour's Final Aeon then told him to go and defeat Sin ie. to go and kill himself. That would be the only way the people would accept him.

[Greatermaximus]

Lets simplify it. It's topic-worthy right?

[Evastio]

No mention of Golbez? I guess Zemus/Zeromus is the real villain, but still, being the prominent villain for 90% of the story deserves some credit.

Golbez is really tragic, losing his father to people that used the magic his father taught them to kill him. Also, losing his mother in childbirth when birthing Cecil really added to the pain Golbez went through. I find Zemus' influence on Golbez to be much more understandable than Kain (both parents dead vs. boo hoo she loves him and not me). After losing his only parent left, I can't exactly blame Golbez for giving into Zemus' thoughts about Cecil being responsible for killing his mother (that's definitely not the case, but I can understand why he'd think that after something that tragic). It's a shame they had to remove that backstory bit in the SNES version, even though that part was written and planned during the time.

[The Man]

It's highly doubtful whether either Cain or Golbeza actually qualifies as a villain, despite the fact that both of them spend significant time of the game as antagonists, which is the main reason I didn't mention either. The thread is, after all, about sympathetic main villains, and while Zemus might be invisible for 90% of FFIV, he is still the game's main villain.

[Greatermaximus]

We're getting into the change of heart story and/or twist. Will the people we believe are the heroes or villians or vice versa. I suppose it makes for good writing.

In a gaming case like FF and others we need an antagonist. Gotta do something with the hp/mp/levels/ect.

[Mercen-X]

JENOVA is an animal (an alien who acts like one). JENOVA is an emotionless, totally instinctive creature with the intelligence and powers to understand other lifeforms but its only meaning of life is splitting, absorbing and reuniting and that is all explained in the story and the Ultimania. And it can't do and will never do something else but use its powers to fool other lifeforms, like animals who disguise as well do so it shapeshifts, talks and all that to get what it wants. JENOVA is an Id (that word is not used but fits perfectly because of the definition).

So Jenova Sephiroth is Brainiac Luthor basically.

Jenova typically makes me think of species. It even follows that in order for the species to become evolved, it had to be incubated as a hybrid.

Anyway, I've always been more of a Genesis fan. I don't really know who Gackt is. I don't like his typical style that I've seen in pics and I've only ever heard his one song on DoC. I like Genesis as he has always had more of an expressive personality.

[Sephiroth]

So Jenova Sephiroth is Brainiac Luthor basically.

Jenova typically makes me think of species. It even follows that in order for the species to become evolved, it had to be incubated as a hybrid.

Anyway, I've always been more of a Genesis fan. I don't really know who Gackt is. I don't like his typical style that I've seen in pics and I've only ever heard his one song on DoC. I like Genesis as he has always had more of an expressive personality.

I don't know too much about Superman but if you think about mind control by saying "JENOVA Sephiroth" or something (because I think there was also a part of control form the Brainiac? That is why I understand your post like that. I don't know, you need to tell me), that is not the case here. Except you don't mean "Jenova and Sephiroth" and "Braniac and Luthor" in a direct connection but just try to compare them as beings. Sephiroth is the perfect JENOVA without being controlled. He can use his powers when he wants, not when he must and that is the big difference between him and his "mother". Of course he uses them nontheless but that is just the classic "I am a villain, I want to get stronger" plot. However, I have already said that, of course. I guess you have read the whole post from page 1. Actually I am glad that someone is interested in it.

[Mercen-X]

Basically, in the Justice League Unlimited episode in which Luthor was "corrupted" by nanotechnology of Brainiac, Luthor was able to give Brainiac a purpose beyond his programming (which was simply to document and destroy all civilization, which of course by the end would leave the being without a purpose). Due to Luthor's ambitions, Brainiac-Luthor could not only document and destroy the universe but recreate it according to their combined will.
That's basically what I gleaned from Sephiroth's merge with Jenova. Jenova is like a biological supercomputer which can only follow its own programming to interact with other species and then destroy them. Then Sephiroth determines to become a god. Of course, whereas Sephiroth seems to talk to himself while purportedly talking to his not-corporeally-existent mother, Luthor can regularly be heard having actually conversations with Brainiac who can also be heard speaking in his own distinctive voice. Thus until the two have reached an accord to become the god of a new universe, they remained combined but separate beings.


What it all comes down to in the end is that since the time of their "resolve" either Brainiac Luthor or Jenova Sephiroth have reached a stage wherein you cannot clearly draw a line separating the two names. Due to their compulsory need to destroy, the Brainiac or Jenova component remains in full force. But it is the Luthor/Sephiroth aspect that grants the new organism a visible personality that defines its character.

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja is just immature. Knowing he's going to die is hardly any reason to act the way he does.

Of course you have to remember Kuja didn't just find out he was going to die. He found out he was going to die immediately after he achieved his life's ambition. Two decades of effort, of constantly striving to attain power and justify his massive ego, and he finally did it. He finally was the single most powerful being in existence.

...and it didn't mean anything. He defined all life, including his own, by power. Those with power mattered and if you had the most power, you were the most important; the most untouchable.

And ten all of that is shot to hell in a second. Everything he worked for, everything he believed in, was torn down . Just as he thought he had everything, he had it all taken away.

Shuyin is also immature. People die. Get over it. But then again, he stands opposite to Yuna in that she also lost someone she loved, but instead of spending forever getting bleak about it, she's moving on.

The difference is that Shuyin was a vengeful ghost who spent a thousand years reliving what happened to him and Lenne. It be like if Yuna had to spend a millennium just watching Tidus cease to exist.