Why people didn't like this game

[Freya]

I am playing through them again and realized I do love the combat. The story seems pretty great and well put together. It's gorgeous and the combat is fun.

I don't care for the characters. That's my problem. None of the characters resonated really with me. So I lose interest. I think Sazh is the most endearing of them all. Instead of trying to make a stoic female cloud they could have done so much more with lightning. I hope they do with the next entry because I actually love the world.

Noel in XIII-2 is my favorite I think out of the new cast. While this is the opposite opinion of the favorite characters thread, this isn't the point of it.

The point is: What turned you off of this entry? A lot of people didn't like it. Maybe you loved it! What do you think was the reason people didn't care for it?

Now be nice about it. This is constructive criticism!

[Skyblade]

It's a bland, featureless, empty corridor. Now, so you know what I'm talking about, let me bring up another game: FFX. FFX is a memorable, exciting corridor, filled with tons of interesting people and things to do.

FFXIII is empty. There are more player characters in the world than their are NPCs (ok, not quite. I think the NORA team technically edges the count toward the NPCs). The majority of the game's meaningful dialogue actually comes from a bunch of frelling floating rocks on Pulse. How screwed up is that?

Oh, and the combat is fun, but the Crystarium is way too restrictive. The combat doesn't really get enjoyable until endgame, when you actually have enough abilities that you can use the system. Also, I dislike how the system punishes trying to take direct control of battles. FFX-2 was a much better execution of a similar concept.

And, while I don't mind the linearity (I did love FFX, again), I do think it got absolutely ridiculous. Also, FFX used it's linearity better. FFX was a journey, a trail to the final Aeon and the battle against Sin. You're on a set mission and path, so linear makes sense. In XIII, 95% of the game is spent trying to figure out WTF your team's focus is (because for some reason, the Fal'Cie choose not to just tell you), and you have no goal in mind. If ever a game called for mindless wandering instead of linearity, this one is it.

[SteahMeLee]

I still don't played it even while I know about the flaws you listed...

Why you ask?


I'm studying the system and trying to find a way to reproduce the classes but I can't find a clear way, they are all too much of hybrids... I want a Knight, a Black Mage, a Thief, etc... I'm really frustrated I can't actually create them...

That's the main thing I dislike of the game... I'd have run for an empty corridor for dozens of hours if I could have done it with classes...

[Lucrokender]

FFX seemed really big the first time you played it. After that you have to agree that it has just as much to do that XIII does. And nothing compared to XIII-2. Don't let the past change your perception of the present!

Honestly, I really enjoyed the XIII characters. I spent half the game going "Come on, make me care" and then by chapter 7, I did. By the very end I was crying when I watched everyone walk into the sunset. ]

We have Lightning - Hope (Mother and Son, Hope lost his mother, Lightning lost her Sister, Hope can't get his mother back, Lightning is trying desperately to save her sister. Their entire storyline is actually quite amazing if you read into the actual metaphors behind their connection)

Snow - Everyone (Him against the world, including himself -His dear love is missing, and he is powerless to save her. He realizes Lightning doesn't believe in him, and he begins to doubt himself. But it's this doubt that fortify's his resolve, a "shock" to his system that he needed. He wants to protect everyone,but he has to learn to protect his dearly beloved first, yet in his current life, he has to figure out how to do both. Another amazing conflict.)

Vanille and Hope (Vanille provides the hope that Hope needs to keep himself alive as a person. She knows he lost his mother, and she knows his need to kill Snow is wrong, but she comforts him and has his back emotionally. She knows her ultimate fate, and the futility in all their actions, but it's actually Hope's determination that begins with hate that makes her realize that everything doesn't have to be hopeless. She provides hope and love to him to counter his anger, and he provides her with a sense of determination and faith.)

I'd keep going about Sazh, but everyone seems to love him, for obvious reasons.

Fang, even though she was awsome, came too late in the story in my opinion. She is my only gripe. I cried when she died, and it was awsome seeing her near the end of XIII-2, but still. She didn't become a part of the group early enough to become to close to me. However,she replaces Hope as Vanille's emotional rock, and Lightning fortifies Hope where Vanille was no longer needed.

All in all, this game was more a psychological and emotional roller coaster than a bland hero driven "let's save the world" story. The inner turmoil each character has is VERY real, and very relate able.

I think XIII had one of the best stories to date.

[SteahMeLee]

I actually like XIII story and characters! But I prefer X over XIII by 100 times for it's system! It's more fun to me but most of all it lets you make classes and make them well!

[Bolivar]

I think everyone was skeptical and with the first leaks about the game play pandemonium just took hold and closed or senses. It actually is a pretty good game.

I wonder if the mini map over-emphasized how linear the game was.

[SteahMeLee]

I have no prejudice over this game! I just tried to assign every character a Job Class and I find it hard! Do you have any advice?!

I don't want melee fighters to have and use spells but even keeping them in the Commando role makes them use Ruin! I'm quite disappointed!

[Karifean]

I have no prejudice over this game! I just tried to assign every character a Job Class and I find it hard! Do you have any advice?!

How about this: instead of using traditional roles like Knights and Mages who only use physical attacks or magic respectively, use the roles provided in XIII - fighters who can use both but either excel at heavy damaging or weakening enemies. It's a different approach on classes, but it's classes nonetheless.

In essence, assign two or three roles to every party member and level up ONLY THOSE ROLES. Say you make Lightning into a Commando + Saboteur. In that case, never ever touch her Ravager, Sentinel, Synergist or Medic Crystariums and instead only ever invest CP into her Commando and Saboteur Crystariums.

That would keep the characters distinct from one another and give them each their own strengths and weaknesses. Now it's only a matter of actually managing to beat them game that way...

[SteahMeLee]

How about this: instead of using traditional roles like Knights and Mages who only use physical attacks or magic respectively, use the roles provided in XIII - fighters who can use both but either excel at heavy damaging or weakening enemies. It's a different approach on classes, but it's classes nonetheless.

In essence, assign two or three roles to every party member and level up ONLY THOSE ROLES. Say you make Lightning into a Commando + Saboteur. In that case, never ever touch her Ravager, Sentinel, Synergist or Medic Crystariums and instead only ever invest CP into her Commando and Saboteur Crystariums.

That would keep the characters distinct from one another and give them each their own strengths and weaknesses. Now it's only a matter of actually managing to beat them game that way...

Yeah, thanks, I know, it's actually what I has been stuck to do! Having traditional classes is not possible or it is with some compromises!
I was already playing it this way and I arrived to when you surpass the area made of ice-like crystal! I already have Paradigms and I was already playing with each characters having only two possible roles each!

I actually aim to the reflection of traditional Jobs but it's quite complicated and that damn straight-lined Crystarium doesn't help!

Lightning may be a Red Mage, so Commando and Ravager alone are the best couple of roles for her... Snow shall be a Monk... Well, I could give him Commando and Sentinel, pure melee fighter... Sazh is a real problem here... He is stuck with Ravager early and after that I could make him Commando too but I don't know what traditional class he could be! Show and Vanille are Mages! Vanille White Mage and Snow Black Mage! She should have Medic and Saboteur and he should have Ravager and Synergist I think (although logic-wise White Mage should be Medic+Sybergist and Black Mage should be Ravager+Saboteur)! Fang will be judged later but she is probably another Commando+Sentinel (Dragoon class but the roles are these)...

Nevertheless I have a bad feeling about this! Like I couldn't really control the development of the party...

And I really really don't how to define Sazh in terms of the traditional classes!

Outside of all this the game is surely playable and enjoyable with this class differentiation but not every characters are easily to frame into one of the traditional classes and after that recreate it with the available role paths the game offers!

[Lamia]

I loved the game but now that time has passed by I can see why people have issues with it. The previous Final Fantasies just had a lot more substance to them. The world of FFXIII isn't fleshed out. It had an interesting premise so its a shame that we weren't able to fully explore Pulse and Cocoon. Also the cast had a very different dynamic than previous FFs (7-12). It didn't really have a main male and female character... Cloud/Squall/Zidane/Tidus/Vaan and Aerith/Rinoa/Garnet/Yuna/Ashe.

IMO XIII shares a lot of problems with other Final Fantasies

-Cheesy dialogue (FFX)
-Linearity/levels made of corridors (FFX)
-Simplistic/uninteresting character customization (FFIX)
-Blah summons system (FFXII)
-No world map or controllable airship (FFX, XII)


But it also has many issues unique to it

-Little exploration and few things to discover
-No towns, few NPCs, universe not fleshed out
-End game content is not varied
-Little variety in equipment. Many accessories seem kind of useless.
-Really? No dungeon puzzles? Just walk straight through?
-Mini games and side quests are few and do not add much to the experience.

Despite every FF game having its share of flaws, they usually have awesome innovations that make up for them. Unfortunately, XIII is only strong in a few areas.
Example: many fans did not like the art style of Final Fantasy IX. But the game still had awesome mini games (chocobo digging, Tetra Master). It also had many side quests and things to do and cool and unique characters.

Example 2: Many people did not like how different XII was... political storyline, different aesthetic, different music, different battle system... BUT it had tons of exploration, enemy variety, "epic loot", secret bosses, awesome hunts system, easter eggs, and a ton of character customization.



The great things about Final Fantasy XIII:

-The graphics are GORGEOUS
-Seamless transition from CGI to real-time
-Wonderful music
-Amazing battle system
-Well developed cast of characters
-Good story

But even these positives come under fire from fans. The battle system is fun, tactical, and fast paced but many feel that you sacrifice control. Some fans feel that the graphics came at a price... the price of better gameplay and exploration. The music is not Uematsu and its different. The cast of characters is also different than what we normally see in an FF... plus Vanille and Hope annoy fans. The story is good but it was convoluted in a way that you would expect from a sci-fi anime and not a Final Fantasy.

Yet, after saying all this, I still loved XIII. But I can see why fans were disappointed...

[Hollycat]

There's a bunch of reason's that I didn't like this game.

Total linearity. You can't even wander off to go back to see the pretty crystal cave again.
I guess it makes sense because of the story, but it still sucks.

The combat isn't engaging at all. At the very begining you've pretty much mastered it.
Click attack to make things die. If they won't die, switch to magic. If you get hit, switch to healing. The end.

We don't get our first sidequest till nearly the end of the game.

The sidequests are all awful.

There is ZERO npc interaction, for the first time in a ff game. Just think of how much ff12 and 10 had. You could talk to nearly everyone.

The game tried to ship Lightning and Hope. Do not want.

It didn't feel like a ff game, I think they should have released it as a new IP.

[Skyblade]

There's a bunch of reason's that I didn't like this game.

Indeed. The same is true for most people.

Total linearity. You can't even wander off to go back to see the pretty crystal cave again.
I guess it makes sense because of the story, but it still sucks.

No, it doesn't make sense because of the story. The story is one of discovery, of figuring out what they're supposed to do, and how they're supposed to do it. That's about as non-linear as you can get.

The combat isn't engaging at all. At the very begining you've pretty much mastered it.
Click attack to make things die. If they won't die, switch to magic. If you get hit, switch to healing. The end.

My problem with the combat was the opposite. It only got good about fifteen hours in, when you finally had enough choices and control over the systems to make decisions interesting and important.

We don't get our first sidequest till nearly the end of the game.

The sidequests are all awful.

True.

There is ZERO npc interaction, for the first time in a ff game. Just think of how much ff12 and 10 had. You could talk to nearly everyone.

Not only are there no NPC interactions, there are no NPCs, period. There are more Cieth stones in this world than there are people.

The game tried to ship Lightning and Hope. Do not want.

I missed that, somehow. And I'm quite thankful for it. I viewed their relationship with Lightning being more of a surrogate mother, if anything.

It didn't feel like a ff game, I think they should have released it as a new IP.

Only in the sense that it wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the series, for the above mentioned reasons. I think, insofar as its core goes, it definitely had potential as an FF game. It just was horribly put together.

[Flaming Ice]

No money from battles yet a lot things were expensive.

You had to lose your best items if you wanted more money

Your best items are used for upgrading your equipment (which takes a long time of the game to get a decent amount of upgrades) so you don't want to trade them off for money.



You magically buy things from a computer......urgh how does the computer have all these items ? Kind of mysterious when a computer takes gold for items it would have to magic out of nowhere....What does a computer do with money!?




Then you know you'll get better weapons later on so you don't even want to use resources to upgrade your weapons....yet you don't want weak weapons.....

[Skyblade]

No money from battles yet a lot things were expensive.

You had to lose your best items if you wanted more money

Your best items are used for upgrading your equipment (which takes a long time of the game to get a decent amount of upgrades) so you don't want to trade them off for money.



You magically buy things from a computer......urgh how does the computer have all these items ? Kind of mysterious when a computer takes gold for items it would have to magic out of nowhere....What does a computer do with money!?




Then you know you'll get better weapons later on so you don't even want to use resources to upgrade your weapons....yet you don't want weak weapons.....

Easy solution: Never upgrade anything. That's how I played. I beat everything in the game, including Vicengetorix that way. Maybe you'll never be able to defeat a Long GUI without upgrading, but, frankly, I wasn't about to take part in the otherwise-pointless upgrading grinds for one fight.

[Flaming Ice]

Easy solution: Never upgrade anything. That's how I played. I beat everything in the game, including Vicengetorix that way. Maybe you'll never be able to defeat a Long GUI without upgrading, but, frankly, I wasn't about to take part in the otherwise-pointless upgrading grinds for one fight.

I had Hope, Lightning and Sazh with one level 9 weapon each and I still couldn't beat one of the bosses (the boss that's after Vanille's village that has a time limit to beat him in).



And I believe each of the Crystarium's were full for their main classes.