2013-14 English Football Season

[Loony BoB]

Gerard Pique was not trout for us. I remember he had one bad game - and I think he played at right back - but beyond that he was brilliant. SAF didn't want to sell but Pique had made up his mind already. I would take him over any of our current central defenders.

Berbatov was not trout, although he was frustrating. But then, so was Ronaldo a lot of the time.

Lindegaard hasn't been trout. Probably the best backup keeper we've had that I can remember, as much as I did love Scrabble (who also had potential but was never going to get a run while we had VDS).

Disagree about Kagawa being even semi-trout.

Powell, in the very few games he has played for us, has been a worthy squad player at worst and a remnant of the old Gerrard at best. Can score great goals and is competent considering his age. I can see him being a third/fourth choice midfielder for us in the future (keep in mind we generally have six or seven at our club). If he does well, maybe even better.

Buttner hasn't been trout. I'm told he was one of our better players in recent games and in the early games I saw him play in, he was great.

Jones definitely hasn't been trout for us this season, Manus.

[Psychotic]

BoB you are such an optimist about your team. You remind me of a Liverpool fan, God Bless You. I've actually heard a couple of United fans say they'll come back and win the league next season.... could next year be Their Year?

On Kagawa, here's a quote that's been doing the rounds on the internet from Alex Ferguson: "In moments he could be sublime. Talent-wise there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. He had two fine feet, he could run, his control was magnificent, his vision was brilliant - he just couldn't fit into the team."

He's talking about Juan Sebastian Veron, but, yeah.

Mind you it's obvious that Park, Kagawa and especially Dong were bought to shift shirts in Asia. I'm not saying they were bad footballers - well, the last one certainly was! - but it was clearly a huge element of why they were signed. Dong cost £3.5m... how much Manchester United merchandise was shifted in China because of him? More than £3.5m? Probably. The Liverpool PR machine is doing a large number on some 14 year old Indian kid we have, setting up an official LFC India Twitter and everything. Gotta play the game - and I don't mean football.

Incidentally I saw ITV's the Bundesliga show the other day and I spied Mame Biriam Diouf knocking in a few goals. I thought he seemed quite handy

[Cuchulainn]

Bob do you actually watch the games?

[Loony BoB]

Not every single one, but most, yes! For those I don't get to see, I watch highlights and I read up on what people and the media thought of their games.

To put Kagawa - a Bundesliga player of the year - and say "he was bought to sell shirts" is insulting and borderline racist. I mean, you may as well say that Ronaldo by Real Madrid was bought to sell shirts, considering that's exactly how they pay his wages (when they bought him, they declared it doesn't matter that he cost £80m because they would make that back in shirt sales alone).

I'd say Park proved over many years that he proved himself just as much.

Dong I can't argue against. xD

And yeah, Diouf has been touted as a potential target for Newcastle or Spurs, I think... I forget.

EDIT: Rose-tinted glasses? Maybe, but I'm certainly not going around saying we can win the league. No chance. Next year? God knows. I'm not expecting it. Obviously every fan hopes, though. I'm naturally optimistic, though, not just about football. I just try to see the best in situations. As for the players, I stand by it all.

[Cuchulainn]

I've already stated that Kagawa (an others such as Forlan and Veron) are good players, they've just been trout for us.

[Loony BoB]

I think it's harsh to say he's been trout for us. He's barely had a run because of the Rooney & RVP obsession, but in the games he has played he's had no more off days than the likes of RVP as far as I'm concerned. RVP has days where he basically does nothing, so does Kagawa. RVP has games where he does amazingly, so does Kagawa. RVP has good runs, but Kagawa is never allowed to have a good run because even when he scored three (or was it four?) goals he was dropped for the next game if I recall correctly.

[Psychotic]

I never said that was the only reason why they bought Kagawa and I never said he was a bad footballer, get off your high horse. Race doesn't come into it. However, if you think him being from the lucrative Far East market is not a factor in why they chose him over other players, especially given United's track history of buying players located in that key market, then you don't understand how football works as a business.

And yes, that is exactly why Ronaldo was bought by Real Madrid. It's precisely why they've bought Beckham, Owen and Gareth Bale - they know the media hype that comes with buying a British player. United and Real are two clubs that are all about the marketing - and it works. I wish Liverpool's marketing machine was as slick as United's in the early 90's as maybe the club wouldn't have had 20 years of nearlys and almosts.

[Loony BoB]

So basically what you're getting at is that Kagawa and Park were bought for their shirt sales no more than pretty much any other high profile player? Why not mention the non-Asian players when you bring that stuff up? That's why I feel it was a borderline racist (not outright racist, otherwise I wouldn't have said "borderline", I know you aren't racist) comment. You seemed to corner it to an Asian thing instead of mentioning the many other high profile players that are bought every day by all kinds of clubs as if it were an unusual thing.

I don't think it was the reason Kagawa was bought over other players, though. Many people see the Bundesliga as the best league in terms of "how it should be" these days, and to buy the best player in one of the best three leagues in the world is not "oh, it's just because he sells shirts more than the others." I'd like to know which others were available for an equal price and wage while maintaining the overall football quality that Kagawa had. He was the best player in the Bundesliga and we got him for a bargain for someone of that stature. I can't think of anyone else that, at that point, would have offered as much bang for our buck outside of players being bought on a free (hi, RVP).

[Psychotic]

Well to clarify, certain teams seem to have certain markets they are targeting. United love Asia, Real Madrid's president loves the British media (and it, Liverpool are randomly hugely popular in Norway and Denmark, hence why we seem to have Norwegians and Danes in the squad - haven't had a Norwegian in a few years actually, need to rectify it!

Kagawa did indeed tear up the Bundesliga but then I think if he was German, United might not have gone in for him. They still might've, we'll never know, but if you think it wasn't factored into their decision to buy this player who, however good he is, clearly does not fit into the United style of play, you're naive. It's not racism on my part, it's racism on United's I'm just observing and noting their behaviour.

Still, you may be able to justify him and maybe even Park (though he should've been shifted a couple of years before he was. Though I guess I could say that for half the United midfield. How the hell is Anderson still a United player) as players but you can't Dong.

[Loony BoB]

Kagawa did indeed tear up the Bundesliga but then I think if he was German, United might not have gone in for him.

This is possibly true, but only because getting a German player out of the German league is about as tricky as getting an English player out of the English league. Home grown rules and all that.

They still might've, we'll never know, but if you think it wasn't factored into their decision to buy this player who, however good he is, clearly does not fit into the United style of play, you're naive. It's not racism on my part, it's racism on United's I'm just observing and noting their behaviour.

I don't know if that's true, I think he does fit into United's style of play quite easily. The fact that he's scored a hattrick in his first season, scored more goals than any other midfielder last season despite having a low number of starts compared to the others, is constantly begged to get more starts from the fans and also was one of the starring players in our best performances this season says that he is very much a United player. Kagawa's problem is that him doing well requires he and Rooney playing and interchanging and it is very rare that SAF played them in tangent because of RVP's fantastic season, and as for Moyes, well... I don't know! He won't play the player who was our best person on the pitch during our best performance on the pitch under Moyes. This is a criticism I do hold against Moyes.

Still, you may be able to justify him and maybe even Park (though he should've been shifted a couple of years before he was. Though I guess I could say that for half the United midfield. How the hell is Anderson still a United player) as players but you can't Dong.

I don't think anyone in the world would say Dong was anything but a shirtseller. xD I do wonder if he even managed to sell many shirts.

[Heath]

I don't think anyone in the world would say Dong was anything but a shirtseller. xD I do wonder if he even managed to sell many shirts.

I haven't been rushing out to buy a shirt with a Dong on it.

[Psychotic]

If Suarez can score on a wet January day away to Stoke he is officially the best player in the world. On current form he's already destroying Messi and Ronaldo's goals-per-game this season (this is not a troll, he genuinely is hammering them) but that's not important. What is important is scoring away against Stoke and I don't know if he can do it. We're trout against Stoke.

[Heath]

As an Evertonian, it naturally pains me to say it - but Suarez is probably the best player in the league this season. I don't think Liverpool are a one-man team, but I'd be interested to see where they'd be without him.

Stoke away isn't an easy game. We literally scraped a point there with a penalty in the last minute.

We've got Norwich at home, which is always one of those games which looks superficially easy but probably won't be. They ruined my birthday last year by beating us 2-1 in a game I assumed we'd win reasonably comfortably.

[Bubba]

I stand by what I said in that Januzaj is world class. When he hits puberty then the premier league better watch out.

To the game, we were poor first half. Better second half and an early goal always helps. Not holding out much for a result at Stamford Bridge next weekend but you never know.

[Cuchulainn]

If Suarez can score on a wet January day away to Stoke he is officially the best player in the world. On current form he's already destroying Messi and Ronaldo's goals-per-game this season (this is not a troll, he genuinely is hammering them) but that's not important. What is important is scoring away against Stoke and I don't know if he can do it. We're trout against Stoke.

He is nowhere near as good as those two. Behave yourself.