Anyone elses parents not let them play this game because of Sin?

[Pumpkin]

It's a video game. I mean I don't have a problem with my son playing/watching whatever and I'm actually going to use it as a learning opportunity. Why this is fiction, why its in the game/movie/show, why it isn't okay to do some of this stuff in real life, what morals you can take from some of it (FFX does have a good enough moral).

[Fynn]

It's a video game. I mean I don't have a problem with my son playing/watching whatever and I'm actually going to use it as a learning opportunity. Why this is fiction, why its in the game/movie/show, why it isn't okay to do some of this stuff in real life, what morals you can take from some of it (FFX does have a good enough moral).

"smurf organized religion?"

[Pumpkin]

No, don't just blindly believe in something. I'm Catholic, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything the Catholic Church does just because it's Catholic. Sure I believe a lot of it (I am Catholic) but at a certain point people need to be able to question things and think for themselves. One of the things pointed out a few times in game when Tidus asks why things are a certain way, a few people tell him they haven't thought about it. It just is. I think the game teaches you to think and wonder and question things, which is a good lesson in my opinion.

[Fynn]

No, don't just blindly believe in something. I'm Catholic, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything the Catholic Church does just because it's Catholic. Sure I believe a lot of it (I am Catholic) but at a certain point people need to be able to question things and think for themselves. One of the things pointed out a few times in game when Tidus asks why things are a certain way, a few people tell him they haven't thought about it. It just is. I think the game teaches you to think and wonder and question things, which is a good lesson in my opinion.

As another Catholic, I'll agree (I honestly can't believe there's as many as two of us here!) It was just a joke. I think the game has worse flaws, but it still was not subtle about being anti-organized religion. It was kind of disrespectful in that regard. At one point I was under the impression that they tried, through Tidus, to push the idea that the ideas of sacrifice and atonement are inherently bad. Thankfully, this is Yuna's story, and in the end, she gets to find the balance between sacrifice/devotion and reason. But the church itself is still irredeemably evil here. I kind of feel many other games (FFTactics, Xenogears) handled it way better, showing actually well-meaning individuals within their organized religions who keep believing in their respectove denominations till the end, with some important people being really corrupt, which is sadly often the case in real life, but that actually makes those games more fascinating, IMO, since just making the religion evil seems cheap.

Anyway, I get where you're coming from, but it would have been better without the evil space whale and that the evil church says it's all our fault

[Skyblade]

No, don't just blindly believe in something. I'm Catholic, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything the Catholic Church does just because it's Catholic. Sure I believe a lot of it (I am Catholic) but at a certain point people need to be able to question things and think for themselves. One of the things pointed out a few times in game when Tidus asks why things are a certain way, a few people tell him they haven't thought about it. It just is. I think the game teaches you to think and wonder and question things, which is a good lesson in my opinion.

As another Catholic, I'll agree (I honestly can't believe there's as many as two of us here!) It was just a joke. I think the game has worse flaws, but it still was not subtle about being anti-organized religion. It was kind of disrespectful in that regard. At one point I was under the impression that they tried, through Tidus, to push the idea that the ideas of sacrifice and atonement are inherently bad. Thankfully, this is Yuna's story, and in the end, she gets to find the balance between sacrifice/devotion and reason. But the church itself is still irredeemably evil here. I kind of feel many other games (FFTactics, Xenogears) handled it way better, showing actually well-meaning individuals within their organized religions who keep believing in their respectove denominations till the end, with some important people being really corrupt, which is sadly often the case in real life, but that actually makes those games more fascinating, IMO, since just making the religion evil seems cheap.

Anyway, I get where you're coming from, but it would have been better without the evil space whale and that the evil church says it's all our fault

We should form a club. Three happy Catholics. We could review games. It'd be awesome.

Yeah, I agree that it was way too heavy handed with it. Especially compared to some of the other games in the series (like FFVII, and how well it demonstrated that an evil, life-draining corporation is not necessarily full of evil people). With the exception of Maester Ronso (lifetime: 2 minutes) and Shelinda (working from memory here, but I think that's her name), no one in the game connected with Yevon is anything but a hypocritical, backstabbing idiot.

While the game does a pretty good job of portraying religious traits, like faith and sacrifice and devotion and stuff, and even a good job of dealing with brainwashed devotion versus faith in ideals or beliefs (Wakka versus Yuna), religion itself gets shafted.

But this wasn't my parents pointing this out to me, this was my own assessment of the game while playing it. All my mom pointed out was that Auron doesn't get nearly enough screen time (which I agree with).

[Jinx]

I really wasn't trying to comment on the aspects of the game. x)

Just saying that a parent is fully within their right to tell their child what they can and can't do, as that's what it means to be a parent.

[Pumpkin]

I didn't mean to offend anybody, and I hope I didn't. I just meant that I could easily let my son play the game and explain to him that he should question things and use his brain instead of blindly following anything really. It's also easy to explain to him that this is a game, it's exaggerating for effect (not necessarily effectively) and that it doesn't mean everyting the Church does is wrong. At the end of the day, Final Fantasy X is fiction and we can learn certain things from it, but it's not reality. It doesn't portray how organized religion is exactly. And I would expect him to question and wonder about that too. Heck I expect him to question and wonder about me saying all of this.

Anyways, yes, Final Fantasy X does take it a bit far with the whole everything the Church/Yevon does is wrong and hypocritical, but no, even as religious as I am, I have no problem letting him play it because he can take a lesson from it and it's also just an enjoyable game. If I can teach him about fiction vs reality then I feel pretty safe about letting him play games/movies/tv shows that aren't the most child friendly. I would actually rather he be exposed to it while I'm around so I can discuss things with him, explain why certain things portrayed aren't acceptable in real life or even realistic, and answer his questions should he have them.

[Skyblade]

I didn't mean to offend anybody, and I hope I didn't. I just meant that I could easily let my son play the game and explain to him that he should question things and use his brain instead of blindly following anything really. It's also easy to explain to him that this is a game, it's exaggerating for effect (not necessarily effectively) and that it doesn't mean everyting the Church does is wrong. At the end of the day, Final Fantasy X is fiction and we can learn certain things from it, but it's not reality. It doesn't portray how organized religion is exactly. And I would expect him to question and wonder about that too. Heck I expect him to question and wonder about me saying all of this.

Anyways, yes, Final Fantasy X does take it a bit far with the whole everything the Church/Yevon does is wrong and hypocritical, but no, even as religious as I am, I have no problem letting him play it because he can take a lesson from it and it's also just an enjoyable game. If I can teach him about fiction vs reality then I feel pretty safe about letting him play games/movies/tv shows that aren't the most child friendly. I would actually rather he be exposed to it while I'm around so I can discuss things with him, explain why certain things portrayed aren't acceptable in real life or even realistic, and answer his questions should he have them.

Agreed. As a parent, your job is to supervise and teach (among tons of other things), and games are great tools to do that. And FFX does actually have a lot of utility in this regard, and can be overanalyzed really easily (which is silly normally, but can be a good teaching tool, since it uses familiar points to address new topics).

That said, I frankly don't mind the parent banning FFX for these reasons. I'm rather glad, in point of fact. True, I'd much rather the parent learn about the material, and understand what it is and how it uses the terms and symbols, and what the game teaches, than just a surface interpretation. But I'm glad that the parent was still paying attention enough to forbid something that she found offensive or inappropriate for her child.

Would I ban the game on this point? No. Sin is the antagonist of the game. Teaching "Sin equals bad" does not exactly go against my beliefs. But I can understand hearing it a lot and the reaction. It's a parent that cares. And however misguided I think they may have been, I'm glad they care, and that they made the decision according to their ideals.

And you know what? The kids grow up one day. FFfreak1 is now grown, and can choose to enjoy the game and understand it on his own terms. No harm done.

And when he has his own kids and sees him playing FFXXIII, he can take it away from him and play it himself (to make sure it's ok for kids, of course) and have some great bonding and learning experiences with his own kids.

[DMKA]

Then as retribution I took one of her dvds and snapped it in half. I then told her very calmly how it would confuse her because the characters were so realistic and it looked like real life. She got the point, I got grounded and had to replace the movie, and after that I played whatever I wanted as long as I bought it.

If I'd have done that to my parents, I'd have never played another video game again, because I wouldn't have hands left to play them with, if I was even still breathing.

[Fynn]

We should form a club. Three happy Catholics. We could review games. It'd be awesome.

Now that you've said it, it has too happen. That's too awesome an idea to waste.

I agree with to a certain extent. It is nice to see some parents care enough to stop the children for doing something they consider harmful. But, IMO, if they do it on a whim, without giving it much insight, essentialy just telling them "no because no", that's not a very nice lesson. It's hard to build trust on something like that.

[sir helix]

I remember dad wouldn't let me play devil may cry cause he accused me of witchcraft once

[Skyblade]

We should form a club. Three happy Catholics. We could review games. It'd be awesome.

Now that you've said it, it has too happen. That's too awesome an idea to waste.

I agree with to a certain extent. It is nice to see some parents care enough to stop the children for doing something they consider harmful. But, IMO, if they do it on a whim, without giving it much insight, essentialy just telling them "no because no", that's not a very nice lesson. It's hard to build trust on something like that.

This is true, but it is not the entire story.

She didn't say "no because no". She disagreed with the prominent use of a religious term. It was the overabundance of the word Sin, and ffFreak1 knew that. There was a reason, and it was explained.

Words have power. Imagery has power. Why do you think "Sin" was chosen as the beast's name? It was a use and a manipulation of terms we are already familiar with. It was meant to evoke the word's meaning, in addition to its meaning in Spira. To lend additional weight to the themes and meaning of Sin.

I certainly have seen people rebel against such usages before. Take the gamers who returned Bioshock Infinite because of the game's misuse of baptism. An extremely important sacrament twisted to a very different nature by that game, and it was done intentionally. I really don't see how the objection is any different. I may not make such an objection myself, but I can certainly understand it.

Could the reasoning have been explained better? Sure. Was it a missed opportunity for education and expansion, both on the part of the gamer and the parent? Absolutely. But do we know how much time ffFreak1's mom had to look deeper into it? Do we know if she could explain her reasoning and the meaning behind it clearly enough to her child (or that it wouldn't simply come across as a lecture in addition to a punishment)? Do we even know the full nature of her objection?

This may not have been an ideal handling of the situation, but I still think it's an overall positive one. I'd prefer overly cautious and watchful parents to those who don't think it's their job to raise their kids.



Also, shion expressed interest too, so now we just need to start by picking a game.

[Pumpkin]

Can we do Final Fantasy IX

[Fynn]

Can we do Final Fantasy IX

Sure, why not? But you're probably gonna have to be the head of this project, since you play the game on a yearly basis

Skyblade, I think you pretty much nailed it. Also, I need to try Bioshock Infinite sometime, once I have a computer that can run it.

[Skyblade]

Can we do Final Fantasy IX

Sure, why not? But you're probably gonna have to be the head of this project, since you play the game on a yearly basis

Skyblade, I think you pretty much nailed it. Also, I need to try Bioshock Infinite sometime, once I have a computer that can run it.

This would make for a very interesting review, as we'd all have very different perspectives then. Shion is a regular fan, The White Wizard played it long ago, and I'll have to get off my bum and actually finish the thing, so I'll have a very fresh look.

Yeah, I never finished IX. Not that I hated it (and I actually quite enjoyed it when it finally came to the PSP and stopped making my eyes bleed). But just some minor stuff always kept it from being the top of my "to play" list, so I never got around to it.

We'd also have to come up with a structure/format for it. Three independent reviews would hardly be an ideal use of the setup. Perhaps we each write up our impressions, pass them among each other, and then do point/counterpoint for the review itself?

And perhaps we should then start with one we're all more familiar with, so we can pound out details and work things over a bit. FFX would make an obvious solid choice, but, with the HD remix about to come out, it would probably make sense to wait on that one a bit, since we could go over the international content as well. But, while we figure out what we're doing, I'll work on finishing IX.


And I have driven this well and truly off topic. Although I'm not sure we have much more to discuss on topic. So... Hmm. Take it to PMs, or try to find a place for a thread on it so we can all actually talk together (since I don't think three way PMs really work)?