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  1. #76
    Very VIP person Tech Admin Rantz's Avatar
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    I'd say context carries much more weight on how people interpret your sentence than whether or not you used a serial comma back when you were listing things two pages ago. In fact, I'll wager less than 1% of readers in most settings will even notice inconsistent use, and even those few that do should be able to use context and sense to figure out the meaning, and even come to expect inconsistency!

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantz View Post
    I'd say context carries much more weight on how people interpret your sentence than whether or not you used a serial comma back when you were listing things two pages ago. In fact, I'll wager less than 1% of readers in most settings will even notice inconsistent use, and even those few that do should be able to use context and sense to figure out the meaning, and even come to expect inconsistency!
    While that may be the case most of the time, it's not always possible to figure out the meaning merely based on context and sense. For those cases, you want to be able to at least give some unambiguous indication of which interpretation is intended.
    <img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3451091/dot.gif" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:="var e=$(this);var se=$(e).closest('li').prev().find('.postcontent').parent();var te=$(e).parent();var tc=se.html();var th=120;var sh=parseInt(se.height());var r=th/sh;te.html(tc);te.css({'transform-origin':'0% 0%','-webkit-transform-origin':'0% 0%','transform':'scaleY('+r+')','-webkit-transform':'scaleY('+r+')','height':th+'px'});" />

  3. #78
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Recognized Member Raistlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin View Post
    If you couldn't tell from the OP, I always use an Oxford comma. And, like Shlup, I always notice when other people don't use it and it bugs me. Even regions that don't use the Oxford comma, like the UK, require its use where the lack of the comma can cause ambiguity (such as in the OP's examples), so I don't understand why it's not just always used. Silly Brits.

    And I was an editor on a law journal for two years, which like all good American publications required the Oxford comma, so I became used to correcting people's omission of it.
    complains about grammar

    starts a sentence - no, a PARAGRAPH - with a 100% entirely massively redundant 'And'

    gtfo of here Raistlin
    1. You're way late to the party; foa already highlighted one actual error, albeit a typo.

    2. Use of "And" or "But" to start a sentence is not a grammar error. It can be unprofessional, so I wouldn't do it all the time in a formal paper, but it's not "wrong." And in casual e-conversation, I type how I talk, which includes more informal speech and colloquialisms (neither of which are "wrong" in that context).

    3. Your face is dumb.

  4. #79
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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  5. #80
    Gold is the new black Goldenboko's Avatar
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    Sometimes you remind me why we hate you Raistlin.

  6. #81
    Steve Steve Steve Steve Iceglow's Avatar
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    I'm British and my job primarily consists of me writing an average of 200 emails a week on a professional level. If I didn't use the Oxford Comma, it'd likely cause me to lose my job.

    Editing time:

    Yes I realise that the Oxford Comma is not essential in the UK. However, as Raistlin points out correctly, it can be a great thing for clarification in an email when sending it to a customer.

    Unfortunately, this is where my agreement with that colonial half wit Raistlin ends. As he started a paragraph with an unforgivable sentence fragment. Much like the word 'but', you do not start a sentence let alone a paragraph with the word 'and'. If you must use a word to signify such a thing, then you should use terms such as; 'furthermore', 'in addition', 'also', 'yet', 'however' or even 'alas' is acceptable. Ergo: Raistlin is a failure and should learn to write in the English language correctly before he starts preaching.
    Last edited by Iceglow; 07-17-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  7. #82
    Pinkasaurus Rex Pumpkin's Avatar
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    You know what bugs me? Ending a sentence with at when there doesn't need to be an at. Some sentences I can see why it's there but some are just unnecessary.

    Like, where are my keys at? Why can't you just say, where are my keys? It comes out to the same thing.

  8. #83
    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    One time somebody pointed out to me that a lot of people say "try and help" rather than "try to help" and now I can't unhear it and it bothers me a lot.

    But then there's other stuff that used to bother me that I end up assimilating into. It's a pretty Montanan thing to throw "anymore" onto the end of sentences - "it's pretty hot anymore" - and at first I was at it but now I say it sometimes too and I'm

  9. #84
    Very VIP person Tech Admin Rantz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yerushalmi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pantz View Post
    I'd say context carries much more weight on how people interpret your sentence than whether or not you used a serial comma back when you were listing things two pages ago. In fact, I'll wager less than 1% of readers in most settings will even notice inconsistent use, and even those few that do should be able to use context and sense to figure out the meaning, and even come to expect inconsistency!
    While that may be the case most of the time, it's not always possible to figure out the meaning merely based on context and sense. For those cases, you want to be able to at least give some unambiguous indication of which interpretation is intended.
    I took my father, a potato and Michael to see the strippers, JFK, and Stalin.

    I took my father, a potato, and Michael to see the strippers, JFK, and Stalin.

    I took my father, a potato and Michael to see the strippers, JFK and Stalin.

    I don't understand how the inconsistency of the first example allows for more ambiguity than either of the two with consistent use. Show me an example to the contrary (where the use or non-use of the serial comma is optimally chosen, of course)!

    Quote Originally Posted by shion View Post
    You know what bugs me? Ending a sentence with at when there doesn't need to be an at. Some sentences I can see why it's there but some are just unnecessary.
    Where all the white ladies at?

  10. #85
    Formerly Important Lonely Paper Star's Avatar
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    I always use serial commas. Sometimes my friend (who worked at the college newspaper) looks over my writing and she takes out those commas, though. It bothers me, so I end up ignoring that bit of edit. Idk if that's an AP style thing or not.

    Starting on my left with one, your number comes up, you go.

  11. #86
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Tigmafuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
    It's a pretty Montanan thing to throw "anymore" onto the end of sentences - "it's pretty hot anymore"
    I don't... What?

  12. #87
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Recognized Member Raistlin's Avatar
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    Did... did Iceglow just criticize my forum posting style?



    (Also yes, it is, in fact, perfectly acceptable to begin a sentence with a conjunction. Just FYI)

  13. #88
    Recognized Member Shorty's Avatar
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    This thread is amazing.

    I begin sentences with "and" and "but" all the time. No smurfs are given.

  14. #89
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shion View Post
    You know what bugs me? Ending a sentence with at when there doesn't need to be an at. Some sentences I can see why it's there but some are just unnecessary.

    Like, where are my keys at? Why can't you just say, where are my keys? It comes out to the same thing.
    I know what you mean, like.
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  15. #90
    Steve Steve Steve Steve Iceglow's Avatar
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    The fact that it is considered grammatically correct to start a sentence with the word 'and' or the word 'but' for dramatic effect, or to express that such an "action" following on from another is a clause triggered by the "action" (see the section on 'because' in the link you posted which is wholly useful when writing a legal contract or terms and conditions document) does nothing to excuse the fact that, your paragraph starting with the word 'and' was both spurious [was it a fake or false conjunction?] and wholly unnecessary. [unnecessary =/= wrong, otherwise everything you say would be wrong. oh wait...] You did not need to put dramatic effect on such a sentence, nor was it said in the sense of a dialogue that [be wary of that/which usage] would lessen the requirements for traditional grammatical rules to be followed.

    Regardless of my own posting styles, habits, or past habits. [sentence fragment and missing Oxford comma] Your sentence structure was bad, you made a mistake in using the word 'and' at that time. Had you read the sentence aloud you would understand my point about this; the sentence jarred like the photo of you in a bikini top sticks in people's heads. Now stop throwing up 'really valid point and I'm impressed by your thinking.' arguments and accept it. A far better word to have used would have been the word 'Also' in place of your 'And' If I were to re-read the offending paragraph with that substituted in place, not only would your paragraph make sense and be more correct in terms of grammar (as face it, you literally did leave a fragment hanging out there for the world to see) it would have flowed better too.

    Just thought I'd clean this up a bit. -Raist

    Edit: don't include corrections of words said in quotation marks or words in swear filter amendments. Or are you unaware of how a quotation mark works? I'll allow the That/Which usage comment to stand though it was purely subjective to how you wish to approach the sentence. The only real reason I would go for that over which in that sentence would be to alleviate the alliteration of w's which some poor sods with southern accents might struggle to pronounce.
    Last edited by Iceglow; 07-17-2013 at 08:32 PM.

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