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  1. #91
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shion View Post
    You know what bugs me? Ending a sentence with at when there doesn't need to be an at. Some sentences I can see why it's there but some are just unnecessary.

    Like, where are my keys at? Why can't you just say, where are my keys? It comes out to the same thing.
    I know what you mean, like.
    Bow before the mighty Javoo!

  2. #92
    Put the bloody gubs in the crev. Free Edgar 2014 Steve's Avatar
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    The fact that it is considered grammatically correct to start a sentence with the word 'and' or the word 'but' for dramatic effect, or to express that such an "action" following on from another is a clause triggered by the "action" (see the section on 'because' in the link you posted which is wholly useful when writing a legal contract or terms and conditions document) does nothing to excuse the fact that, your paragraph starting with the word 'and' was both spurious [was it a fake or false conjunction?] and wholly unnecessary. [unnecessary =/= wrong, otherwise everything you say would be wrong. oh wait...] You did not need to put dramatic effect on such a sentence, nor was it said in the sense of a dialogue that [be wary of that/which usage] would lessen the requirements for traditional grammatical rules to be followed.

    Regardless of my own posting styles, habits, or past habits. [sentence fragment and missing Oxford comma] Your sentence structure was bad, you made a mistake in using the word 'and' at that time. Had you read the sentence aloud you would understand my point about this; the sentence jarred like the photo of you in a bikini top sticks in people's heads. Now stop throwing up 'really valid point and I'm impressed by your thinking.' arguments and accept it. A far better word to have used would have been the word 'Also' in place of your 'And' If I were to re-read the offending paragraph with that substituted in place, not only would your paragraph make sense and be more correct in terms of grammar (as face it, you literally did leave a fragment hanging out there for the world to see) it would have flowed better too.

    Just thought I'd clean this up a bit. -Raist

    Edit: don't include corrections of words said in quotation marks or words in swear filter amendments. Or are you unaware of how a quotation mark works? I'll allow the That/Which usage comment to stand though it was purely subjective to how you wish to approach the sentence. The only real reason I would go for that over which in that sentence would be to alleviate the alliteration of w's which some poor sods with southern accents might struggle to pronounce.
    Last edited by Steve; 07-17-2013 at 09:32 PM.

  3. #93
    \_(ツ)_/ Tigmafuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shion View Post
    You know what bugs me? Ending a sentence with at when there doesn't need to be an at. Some sentences I can see why it's there but some are just unnecessary.

    Like, where are my keys at? Why can't you just say, where are my keys? It comes out to the same thing.
    where da white women at

  4. #94
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    So apparently my sentence structure was so bad and jarring, yet substituting the word "also" for the word "and" at the beginning would have magically cleared that all up. You can identify plenty of grammar errors in my informal posts on EoFF, especially casual sentence fragments; that just happens not to be one of them. But it's so cute that you think you're some sort of expert because you type emails at work. Really, it's entertaining for everyone. I would pinch your cheek right now if I could.

    The alleged rule against using conjunctions to begin sentences is a myth, and I have cited authority in support of that position. It's not a grammar rule, traditional or otherwise. You also have a professional editor in this thread who has backed me, as well as the fact that I was an editor for a law journal for two years and had such grammar rules beaten to death in my brain as I worked on dozens of articles, including working with law students towards the publication of their own articles (in fact, we were told conjunctions were preferable to the overused "however" to begin a sentence, but that was more of a stylistic choice than a grammar rule).

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceglow. View Post
    Unfortunately, this is where my agreement with that colonial half-wit Raistlin ends, as he started a paragraph with an unforgivable sentence fragment.
    Fixed it for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Pantz View Post
    Show me an example to the contrary (where the use or non-use of the serial comma is optimally chosen, of course)!
    Your very first sentence was this:
    I took my father, a potato and Michael to see the strippers, JFK, and Stalin.

    Now follow it with this:
    "Then my brothers, John and David, went to the mall."

    This is a classic if-there's-no-serial-comma-it's-ambiguous sentence (you can replace it with a classic if-there-is-a-serial-comma-it's-ambiguous sentence, and reverse the positions of everything in the following two paragraphs; I can't be arsed to write it all out twice).

    In your sentence, you didn't use the serial comma in the first trio because they were obviously three separate items either way, but you did in the second trio to "eliminate the ambiguity". But let's say John and David really are your brothers. Because you were inconsistent in the previous sentence, the reader doesn't know that anymore.

    Had you been consistent in your first sentence, and used the serial comma in both cases, its absence here would have made your meaning in the second sentence clear.
    Last edited by Yerushalmi; 07-17-2013 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Edits for clarification
    <img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3451091/dot.gif" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:="var e=$(this);var se=$(e).closest('li').prev().find('.postcontent').parent();var te=$(e).parent();var tc=se.html();var th=120;var sh=parseInt(se.height());var r=th/sh;te.html(tc);te.css({'transform-origin':'0% 0%','-webkit-transform-origin':'0% 0%','transform':'scaleY('+r+')','-webkit-transform':'scaleY('+r+')','height':th+'px'});" />

  6. #96
    Put the bloody gubs in the crev. Free Edgar 2014 Steve's Avatar
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    I love how Raistlin has no real argument against this so he has to try and attempt to prove his point with hollow strawman arguments.

    Enough said I never once stated that I am a paragon of grammar here at EoFF but I still know when you're wrong. Funny thing about this is how much it's getting your panties in such a big bunch. If they rode much higher Raistlin then your mother would have to rename you Wendy.

  7. #97
    Life got dark! Lonely Paper Star's Avatar
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    ITT grammar nazi party.

    Starting on my left with one, your number comes up, you go.

  8. #98
    \_(ツ)_/ Tigmafuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star View Post
    ITT grammar nazi party.
    The best kind of party. I'd be participating as well if I cared enough.

  9. #99
    Dat Ace Ace Protorney's Avatar
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    I feel smarter after having read this thread despite not having read the whole damn thing and i'm going to turn this post into one terrible sentence so feel free to correct it with your grammar nonsense if you are up to it though really i really do want to see what you guys do to this post.

    I am just... that ace!

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Proto View Post
    I feel smarter after having read this thread despite not having read the whole damn thing and i'm going to turn this post into one terrible sentence so feel free to correct it with your grammar nonsense if you are up to it though really i really do want to see what you guys do to this post.
    Run-on sentences aren't as annoying as smaller mistakes.

  11. #101
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceglow. View Post
    I love how Raistlin has no real argument against this so he has to try and attempt to prove his point with hollow strawman arguments.

    Enough said I never once stated that I am a paragon of grammar here at EoFF but I still know when you're wrong. Funny thing about this is how much it's getting your panties in such a big bunch. If they rode much higher Raistlin then your mother would have to rename you Wendy.
    Ok, I was going to give up on you, but you just defaced my sacred logical fallacy: the straw man. It is creating an argument for someone instead of responding to the actual argument made. Please point out where I actually did this.

    Also, my actual argument is backed by authority, which is a stark contrast to yours. See here and here and here and here and here and literally every single link on the first page of a Google search of this question.

    I would make fun of you more, but I actually need to leave now. Of course, your next response will almost certainly be "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU YOU'RE STILL WRONG [insert quip about someone's mother]." You can copy/paste that to save time, if you wish (don't worry, I won't respond anymore to this argument). And then, of course, you'll ultimately claim that you knew I was right all along but were just trolling, but unfortunately we stopped buying that one from you long ago.
    Last edited by Raistlin; 07-17-2013 at 09:41 PM.

  12. #102
    Put the bloody gubs in the crev. Free Edgar 2014 Steve's Avatar
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    Actually I was going for the "lalalalala I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am the idea of sex with the man-beast who whelped you is entirely unappealing, yet frankly whilst you may have been correct in that you can start a sentence with the word 'and' or the word 'but', I would argue that you presented a real fragment there without any dire need to do so. As BoB said, you could simply have begun with 'I' why you chose not to I will never know. Also your first argument was not as follows:

    "Steve I would like to point out this here link which proves I can start a sentence with the word 'and' or even the word 'but' should I wish to do so."

    It was actually attacking me for being the one who corrected you, rather than presenting a valid argument immediately you tacked on the validation of your argument as an afterthought and an edit. To that end, I say up yours Wendyand jog on.
    Last edited by Steve; 07-17-2013 at 11:51 PM. Reason: I don't know whats more fun, trolling Raistlin or trolling Raistlin.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Proto View Post
    I feel smarter after having read this thread, despite not having read the whole damn thing, and I'm going to turn this post into one terrible sentence - so feel free to correct it with your grammar nonsense if you are up to it, though I really do want to see what you guys do to this post.
    I didn't even need to split it into more than one sentence.
    <img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3451091/dot.gif" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:="var e=$(this);var se=$(e).closest('li').prev().find('.postcontent').parent();var te=$(e).parent();var tc=se.html();var th=120;var sh=parseInt(se.height());var r=th/sh;te.html(tc);te.css({'transform-origin':'0% 0%','-webkit-transform-origin':'0% 0%','transform':'scaleY('+r+')','-webkit-transform':'scaleY('+r+')','height':th+'px'});" />

  14. #104
    Crazy Scot. Cid's Knight Shauna's Avatar
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  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shauna View Post
    Hey, don't hate my mad editing skills!

    (I know you didn't really mean me )
    <img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3451091/dot.gif" :bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:="var e=$(this);var se=$(e).closest('li').prev().find('.postcontent').parent();var te=$(e).parent();var tc=se.html();var th=120;var sh=parseInt(se.height());var r=th/sh;te.html(tc);te.css({'transform-origin':'0% 0%','-webkit-transform-origin':'0% 0%','transform':'scaleY('+r+')','-webkit-transform':'scaleY('+r+')','height':th+'px'});" />

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