Editorial: Lightning Returns to Sexy: Why SE Risks Destroying Lightning's Strengths

[Jiro]

There is a difference between Samus showing up at the end of the game in a bikini and Samus being able to go through the game in a bikini.

Mind you, just because it didn't ruin the Metroid franchise doesn't mean it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. It's out of character and is inconsistent and ultimately detracts from Samus as a character.

[Skyblade]

There is a difference between Samus showing up at the end of the game in a bikini and Samus being able to go through the game in a bikini.

Google "Justin Bailey", and then get back to me.

Mind you, just because it didn't ruin the Metroid franchise doesn't mean it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. It's out of character and is inconsistent and ultimately detracts from Samus as a character.

No, it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. Does it detract from Samus as a character? I suppose. Enough for me to worry or care about? No.

When I think of Samus, I don't think of the sexualization. I don't play Metroid with the Justin Bailey password. To me, it's not a part of her characterization, it's just an Easter Egg in the game that I can ignore.

[maybee]

Because since the FFXIII world has time travel, she actually turns out to be Nora, and goes back in time and gives birth to Hope?

So Snow Kills her ?

If that was true then Snow will automaticly become my favorite Final Fantasy XIII character.

[Jiro]

There is a difference between Samus showing up at the end of the game in a bikini and Samus being able to go through the game in a bikini.

Google "Justin Bailey", and then get back to me.

Mind you, just because it didn't ruin the Metroid franchise doesn't mean it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. It's out of character and is inconsistent and ultimately detracts from Samus as a character.

No, it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. Does it detract from Samus as a character? I suppose. Enough for me to worry or care about? No.

When I think of Samus, I don't think of the sexualization. I don't play Metroid with the Justin Bailey password. To me, it's not a part of her characterization, it's just an Easter Egg in the game that I can ignore.

So with one hand they crafted a character who stands at the forefront of strong female leads in video games, and with the other they showed that she could also be nothing more than eye candy. I... don't get what you were trying to argue.

Say you're playing a game with one of those morality systems. Say it's Fable, and say you're a good hero who always does the right thing - that's your choice of character, right - the virtuous hero. And then say you kick your sister into hell just for the sword of +infinity. That seems out of character, and kind of undermines all the "good" that you did.

That's on the basic level, of course, where this is more on the meta level. This is one of the reasons people think video games are a) for kids b) not for kids and c) not a mature or artistic medium.

Samus, and Lightning, are strong characters. Action girls who stand up to the boys and say "no sit down, I'm the hero" and do cool things. They are positive rolemodels for girls who don't want to be a smurfing princess or be boy-obsessed or play second fiddle to the hero. Tifa is strong, but she needs gigantic breasts and to be Cloud's love interest. By providing these costumes, you're actively undermining the character. Sure, we can ignore them, but why should we have to? Why are they there? Do you ignore casual sexism in your workplace? Do you ignore the glass ceiling?

[Elpizo]

What I don't get is why most of you are saying that apparently women can't be strong and sexy at the same time. Care to explain that?

[Formalhaut]

One thing's for certain: The next EoFF podcast will be very interesting.

[Skyblade]

There is a difference between Samus showing up at the end of the game in a bikini and Samus being able to go through the game in a bikini.

Google "Justin Bailey", and then get back to me.

Mind you, just because it didn't ruin the Metroid franchise doesn't mean it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. It's out of character and is inconsistent and ultimately detracts from Samus as a character.

No, it doesn't ruin her appearance in that game. Does it detract from Samus as a character? I suppose. Enough for me to worry or care about? No.

When I think of Samus, I don't think of the sexualization. I don't play Metroid with the Justin Bailey password. To me, it's not a part of her characterization, it's just an Easter Egg in the game that I can ignore.

So with one hand they crafted a character who stands at the forefront of strong female leads in video games, and with the other they showed that she could also be nothing more than eye candy. I... don't get what you were trying to argue.

Show me any FF character who hasn't been reduced to eye candy at some point. Even the guys aren't safe from this, as the thousands of pics of Cloud, Sephiroth, Squall, and Seifer should show.

Say you're playing a game with one of those morality systems. Say it's Fable, and say you're a good hero who always does the right thing - that's your choice of character, right - the virtuous hero. And then say you kick your sister into hell just for the sword of +infinity. That seems out of character, and kind of undermines all the "good" that you did.

That's on the basic level, of course, where this is more on the meta level. This is one of the reasons people think video games are a) for kids b) not for kids and c) not a mature or artistic medium.

But that's kind of a big difference. If it happens in-story, it says something about the character. In the case of Fable, it would indicate that the character is virtuous only when it is convenient, but is a ruthless bastard when it comes to his ultimate quest for power.

Similarly, if this was an actual story event, if they'd drastically changed Lightning's personality or had a quest where Lightning cosplayed as a Miq'ote and struck ridiculously sexual poses, I would be upset.

But this isn't a story event, it isn't a part of the canon (anymore than Samus killing everything without her power suit is), and therefore it doesn't affect my view of her characterization.

Samus, and Lightning, are strong characters. Action girls who stand up to the boys and say "no sit down, I'm the hero" and do cool things. They are positive rolemodels for girls who don't want to be a smurfing princess or be boy-obsessed or play second fiddle to the hero. Tifa is strong, but she needs gigantic breasts and to be Cloud's love interest.

While I agree with you here, I do hope you're just saying that Tifa is a different kind of character, and not arguing that those aspects make her a bad character.

By providing these costumes, you're actively undermining the character. Sure, we can ignore them, but why should we have to? Why are they there? Do you ignore casual sexism in your workplace? Do you ignore the glass ceiling?

Ok, how do I put this?

If I saw a picture of a female coworker in a scantily clad outfit, striking a highly suggestive pose, it would change my view of that lady.

If I saw a similar photo that was Photoshopped, or a sketch, or otherwise not a part of real events, it wouldn't.

It doesn't undermine the character, in my mind, because it isn't a part of the character.

It does color my opinion of the devs, and since they have the potential to actually ruin the character, it is definitely worth noting and complaining about. But as long as this isn't a part of the canon or actual characterization, I'm not of the opinion that it affects or detracts from Lightning's character.

I'll treat it like any other piece of fan art out there. It's there, it's largely unnecessary, but it doesn't affect me, and it doesn't affect the characters.

[Freya]

But the thing is, it IS part of the game. You can run with that outfit. Her boobs will be enlarge throughout the game with jiggle affects everywhere. So let's take your example again:

Your female coworker is in a bikini and super mega foxy hot. You think differently of her.

She now got a boob job! You think differently of her. She is now walking around in her normal clothing but with huge tits!

So yeah these changes DO affect the character. And the changes aren't fanart. They are canon!

[Skyblade]

But the thing is, it IS part of the game. You can run with that outfit. Her boobs will be enlarge throughout the game with jiggle affects everywhere. So let's take your example again:

Your female coworker is in a bikini and super mega foxy hot. You think differently of her.

She now got a boob job! You think differently of her. She is now walking around in her normal clothing but with huge tits!

So yeah these changes DO affect the character. And the changes aren't fanart. They are canon!

Running around in a pink leotard in the original Metroid was an in-game option as well. As was wearing N7 Armor from Mass Effect in XIII-2. Does that make it canonical? No. It's just an Easter Egg.

[Raistlin]

What I don't get is why most of you are saying that apparently women can't be strong and sexy at the same time. Care to explain that?

No one is saying that. I'll take one more crack at explaining.

Women can be strong and beautiful. But the various entertainment mediums have focused disproportionately on highlighting and exploiting female characters' sexiness. From the clothes and "armor" they wear to the poses they're drawn in, and especially combined with the frequent dependence on more central male characters for relevance, female characters are frequently utilized as sex objects first and foremost, with much less thought and complexity put into their characters than their male counterparts. Take Tifa from FFVII. Sure, her outfit by itself cannot be fairly considered sexist in a vacuum. But when you consider how inconsistent it was for her shy character and other choices the writers made (such as this badass fighter getting into a "catfight" slapping contest with another woman), one can't help but think that these choices were made because of her sex.

Lightning was different than that. Sure, she's not ugly, but no main characters ever are (though that is another issue). What was different was that her sex isn't exploited in the overtly sexual fashion described above. But these current choices by SE show an inconsistency with that change, and a concern that SE might be returning to form and so exploiting Lightning.

This has nothing to do with "sexy can't be strong." It's how sexy is utilized in conjunction with other aspects of the character.

[Skyblade]

Take Tifa from FFVII. Sure, her outfit by itself cannot be fairly considered sexist in a vacuum. But when you consider how inconsistent it was for her shy character and other choices the writers made (such as this badass fighter getting into a "catfight" slapping contest with another woman), one can't help but think that these choices were made because of her sex.

While I don't disagree, I'd like to point out that it is fairly in character for a female character who makes a living as a bartender in a slum.

[Jiro]

Yes, but that outfit is not appropriate to wear in battle.

Lightning is sexy. But she doesn't need to get her tits out to do so. This is not fanart, this is an honest to god part of the game that Square Enix have included. You argue that it's an easter egg, but it's even easier to obtain - there is no Justin Bailey code to input, you're likely able to buy this at a store. Which implies that Lightning has either no reservations or actively enjoys wearing something like that, which has - in my opinion - been demonstrated as false throughout the previous two games.

Even her "goddess battle armour" was not overly sexualised. If you click here, you can see there's a bit of thigh showing, but it is for all intents and purposes still battle-worthy armour, and covers her goddamn breasts up.

Lighting was supposed to stand on the other side of this trope but including her in revealing and out of character costumes as part of the game is undermining that.

[ShinGundam]

Yes, but that outfit is not appropriate to wear in battle.

Lightning is sexy. But she doesn't need to get her tits out to do so. This is not fanart, this is an honest to god part of the game that Square Enix have included. You argue that it's an easter egg, but it's even easier to obtain - there is no Justin Bailey code to input, you're likely able to buy this at a store. Which implies that Lightning has either no reservations or actively enjoys wearing something like that, which has - in my opinion - been demonstrated as false throughout the previous two games.

Even her "goddess battle armour" was not overly sexualised. If you click here, you can see there's a bit of thigh showing, but it is for all intents and purposes still battle-worthy armour, and covers her goddamn breasts up.

Lighting was supposed to stand on the other side of this trope but including her in revealing and out of character costumes as part of the game is undermining that.

Again, there is like dozen or so outfits we know about actually aren't skimpy. Especially when that one costume/pose is just taken directly from another game: List of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Garb - The Final Fantasy Wiki has more Final Fantasy information than Cid could research

[Jiro]

Again, there is like dozen or so outfits we know about actually aren't skimpy. Especially when that one costume/pose is just taken directly from another game: List of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Garb - The Final Fantasy Wiki has more Final Fantasy information than Cid could research

Yes. But all of those outfits still feature her increased breast size. And here is an image showing several other outfits, one of which is a ballgown which is out of character and terrible as battle wear. My point is that even a single skimpy outfit puts cracks in the positive steps that Square Enix have made when it comes to strong female characters that don't need to be hypersexualised in order to be popular/whatever.

Clearly they've been taking a little too many cues from the folks who worked on Dragon Quest VIII's Jessica. If the one outfit was Viera based or Rikku based, would that make it any less revealing and out of character? No, it would be stupid and it would undermine the fact that Lightning is a conservatively and appropriately dressed warrior.

I understand that "one outfit" is not a big deal. But do you also see that it's a series full of girls who have to dress slutty and have gigantic tits in order to be popular? I want to see a strong female character who doesn't have to be relegated to the eye candy department and have to have over the top "sex appeal" in order to be considered a good leading female.

Lightning can still be sexy and confident with her clothes on. Adding the Miqo'te outfit is not necessary - you could have added the female hume starting outfit to get the same cross-over content without turning her into a smurfing cat girl who leans forward, jiggly her tits, to celebrate a victory in battle. It's almost the smurfing same as Lulu, which Raistlin already highlighted in his sexism series.

The same thing goes both ways though. What would you think if they remade Final Fantasy VII and made this an option for Cloud to wear? Does that fit with his SOLDIER 1ST CLASS personality? (I realise that his personality was stolen from Zack and he was only a Shinra guard but that's not the smurfing point.) By undermining the true strengths of the character and relying on sex appeal to try and gain favour, they have actually ruined everything that make Lightning a progressive female lead.

EDIT: Well, almost everything. If Lightning spends all her smurfing time thinking about boys, I will pack it in and quit Final Fantasy for good.

[Del Murder]

I don't think having one sexy outfit is a big deal in a game where a core mechanic is changing the character's outfit. The thing that bugs me more about Lightning is that SE keeps shoving her down our throats in these out-of-context scenarios. She was a likable character in FFXIII but not even close to the level of popularity that SE seems to think she is. Maybe it's different in Japan.