Amazon sold out of PC Collector's Edition

[Loony BoB]

Apparently! Good to see that interest is surpassing the demand, although I'm sure there are still a number of retailers out there with stock.

[I Don't Need A Name]

Yeah they've been sold out of them for a while now. Glad I got my order in with them whilst it lasted! Game and ShopTo both still have stock though for anyone in the UK still wanted to pick up the PC Collectors Edition

[DMKA]

So it's already done better than the original FFXIV and it's not even out yet. Huh.

[Flaming Ice]

*sigh* if there was no monthly subscription I would buy it.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, that's a real negative. I'm excited about the game and the opportunity to play with you all, but it would cost about $30 a month for my wife and I to play together (including the retail cost of two copies of the game) and I don't know if I've seen enough for it to be worth it, with the limited gaming time I have these days.

[Loony BoB]

Eh, I prefer subscription MMOs. From what I've heard about the 'major' differences, subscription MMO's seem a lot better than games that constantly nag you to invest more money (breaks immersion) and have updates few, far between and generally low in content value. The immense changes experienced between 1.0 and 1.23 showed the value of a subscription model for me. Of course, I'm going mostly by hearsay but I believe from what I read that there is a good reason for this game having a monthly cost.

I can understand someone with very limited gaming time not being keen on it though.

[Yeargdribble]

I've just never really understood the aversion to a subscription model. To me it's sort of like people who will spend $6-800 on an iPad, but suddenly get scroogey about dropping $1.99 for an app that they'll use regularly that makes their life easier... and I've personally been there. I'd drop a few bucks here or there for things I've learned to not think about. I'd mindlessly throw something in the cart at the grocery store on a whim, or buy the more expensive version of something without thinking about it... or I used to.

Now I'm more likely to be frugal about my shopping habits and less frugal about things like app purchases. When I take a step back and consider the use/enjoyment I get out of one thing versus another, it's an easy call. Sure, my wife and I will spend $30 a month on this game, but we're also likely to not even think twice about spending that much on going out to eat with friends... something much more fleeting.

Compare it to going to the movies, or buying any new game. I personally almost never buy a game at full price and with Steam sales I tend to never spend more than $15 on a single game, but there are people happy to spend $60 on a game they'll play for a 10-15 campaign, but scoff at the idea of $12-15 a month for a game they'll probably play a lot more of.

I think a lot of it just has to do with how we're wired psychologically to view these things and there have been some great TED talks showing just how illogical we can get about it.

But if you take a step back and think about it, subscription MMOs are some of the best bang for your buck entertainment out there, even if you don't play it relentlessly. And the difference between a F2P and subscription is noticeable. My wife spent a lot of time in various F2Ps and ultimately, to play the game without feeling hamstrung, you end up likely paying more than you would for a subscription because they limit you on simple things like storage space, and transportation, or even hotbars. The quality of subscription MMOs is just higher.

Anyway... I could go on endlessly about this, but I think I've made the big points.

[Jinx]

Yearg is right. If you go to the movies once a month, you'll probably be spending as much on that as you will be on a month subscription of the game. If you buy a book, you'll probably be spending nearly as much. The good thing about the game is that you get to play any time you want.

[Del Murder]

I think subscription models work if you have a lot of time to play and if you find the game very immersive. For FFXIV, I don't know if those two criteria have been met for me yet.

You can't really compare games to other forms of entertainment because they are different forms of entertainment. I watch movies or read books for different reasons than I play games. But you can compare different game models, and I've always prefered an up-front cost model (for all games, not MMOs, which I have only ever played one). For most games, you pay for the disc and then you can play it all you want. For a subscription MMO, you have to pay for the disc and the monthly fee (for each player in your household). So a MMO has to be that much better than a normal game, which you can play all you want as long as you want with whoever you want after you buy it.

FFXI was a subscription model and I played it and loved it. But I played it when the game had already been out 4-5 years already and it was much more polished than it was at launch (and probably not worth my subscription back then). I also had access to tons more content than the first subscribers. I'm wondering if FFXIV will be this way too. I much prefer to join a game like this when it is a few years old rather than at the start because everything will be much more smooth.

[Aulayna]

Well the good news is your first 30 days are free.

[Yeargdribble]

I think subscription models work if you have a lot of time to play and if you find the game very immersive. For FFXIV, I don't know if those two criteria have been met for me yet.

I'll agree. If you don't enjoy it move on, just like a SP game. In the past I've paid way too much for a SP experience I didn't enjoy and also walked away from. I don't really see how, as far as immersion goes, a subscription MMO is much different from a SP game. If you hate the MMO, you walk away and probably only paid as much as you would for a SP game in the first place. At least in this case you've got the open beta to decide if you want to pay for even the box before you do.

You can't really compare games to other forms of entertainment because they are different forms of entertainment. I watch movies or read books for different reasons than I play games.

While I consume different entertainment for different reasons, they are all things I enjoy. Eating out with friends is definitely different than reading a book, but they both bring enjoyment. I don't see how these are so different from doing a cost/benefit analysis of what you pay for in games whether online or SP.

But you can compare different game models, and I've always prefered an up-front cost model (for all games, not MMOs, which I have only ever played one). For most games, you pay for the disc and then you can play it all you want. For a subscription MMO, you have to pay for the disc and the monthly fee (for each player in your household). So a MMO has to be that much better than a normal game, which you can play all you want as long as you want with whoever you want after you buy it.

In this case, FFXIV is only $30 for the disc and 30 days without paying for a subscription. That's far less than most games and that's more time than you'd probably put into a game you bought on a disc anyway.

I used to prefer the upfront method too, but I'm more and more in love with subscription models in general. I could buy episodes of TV shows or movies in boxes... or I could subscribe to Netflix. I could pay to upgrade stuff like Office, Photoshop, etc. every few years up front, or I could subscribe for much less over all and get much more out of it over all. Same with music subscription services like Spotify.

Heck, I'd be happy (and wouldn't be terribly surprised) if a lot of gaming went the subscription model in the future. For example, what if you paid $15 a month to have full access to the entire back catalog of Sony games from PS1-PS3 all accessible on your Vita or PS4? I'd much rather do that than hunt down copies of some of these games.

FFXI was a subscription model and I played it and loved it. But I played it when the game had already been out 4-5 years already and it was much more polished than it was at launch (and probably not worth my subscription back then). I also had access to tons more content than the first subscribers. I'm wondering if FFXIV will be this way too. I much prefer to join a game like this when it is a few years old rather than at the start because everything will be much more smooth.

Yeah, the time I put into FFXI when it was a brutal, unhealthy game is terrible and broke me as a person in many ways. But there's a sick part of me that wishes I'd been in earlier. I'm a sick bastard that reads through old patch notes and comments for people that were there at a time when the cap was 50, SA was broken and everyone was a MNK/THF for 100% accurate critical strikes with Combo... or when DRGs could spam Pentathrust. I wish I'd been there to see where it was and where it went.

I'm still nostalgic over some of the "back in the day" stories of my own... before they lowered the XP requirements... beating CoP before it was nerfed.. bones parties in KRT when a chain 8 was a technical marvel and at a time when fighting Rams in Tavnazia was one of the best options for getting to 75. I liked watching it grow.

I've had the same experience with WoW since I started after Burning Crusade and wished I'd see what endgame was like in Vanilla and how those zones worked. Or a time when Taurens didn't get mounts because they had Plainsrunning.

Part of me also wishes I'd been around for FFXIV 1.0 just to have seen what a mess it was and have an idea of exactly what all changed so I'd appreciate it more.

But I'll admit that these desires to be there early are sort of unhealthy and not necessarily a good thing. But hey, it also highlights another of the amazing things about subscription MMOs. Seeing them revised, watching them grow, getting new content. It's a form of media unlike any other. The endgame of Vanilla WoW was a moment in time that can never be recaptured and was only there for the people who did it when it existed.

Once upon a time I would've had a problem with that, but I sorta find it magical now.

[theundeadhero]

The argument of paying for a game once upfront and playing it whenever you want vs paying a subscription fee never made sense to me. I can make a very long list of games I payed $30-$60 for, beat once, then never played again. There's nothing new to experience in those games. Once you're done the only option is to do it all over again. For subscription MMOs it's not so easy to complete everything. You pay a little each month but each time you play you're seeing new content or getting further in content you've done before. You could spend a month in FFXIV leveling up all your skill jobs. Or getting better gear. Or exploring new dungeons. Then do something completely different the next month. You pay to continue to do new things.

OOC:

I've had the same experience with WoW since I started after Burning Crusade and wished I'd see what endgame was like in Vanilla and how those zones worked. Or a time when Taurens didn't get mounts because they had Plainsrunning. I could answer those questions and experiences Plainsrunning for Taurens was in Beta only though. I wasn't in Beta.

[Del Murder]

If the disc is only $30 and the first 30 days are free, it's certainly worth trying out. Again, I'm not arguing against the subscription model in general, only that for me, at this time there doesn't appear to be enough for me to enjoy in FFXIV (combined with my availability) to warrant a subscription right out of the gate.

You could spend a month in FFXIV leveling up all your skill jobs. Or getting better gear. Or exploring new dungeons. Then do something completely different the next month. You pay to continue to do new things.

Again that's subjective. If all I did was level skill jobs or try to get new gear for a month in FFXIV I'd consider my money wasted. Exploring is fun though.

[Yeargdribble]

You could spend a month in FFXIV leveling up all your skill jobs. Or getting better gear. Or exploring new dungeons. Then do something completely different the next month. You pay to continue to do new things.

In Del's defense, these things can totally seems like empty padding and not so much gaming to a lot of people. Lord knows that FFXI turned into more of a job itself at a times rather than a game and even WoW certainly had we realized just what sort of treadmill I was on chasing a carrot. In fact, WoW ultimately ruined a lot of games for me by making look behind the curtain and realize that many games (SP included) were the types that were just Skinner boxes that tap into my brain's compulsion to check things off of lists and sometimes I'd just have to step back and say, "WTF am I doing?"

Of course, so long as it's not destroying my life, plug my ass into the matrix and let me pretend it's a delicious steak dinner. I'll try to suspend my disbelief about the fact that I'm spending hours earning 1s and 0s that will have no bearing on my life in anyway.

[Aulayna]

You could spend a month in FFXIV leveling up all your skill jobs. Or getting better gear. Or exploring new dungeons. Then do something completely different the next month. You pay to continue to do new things.

In Del's defense, these things can totally seems like empty padding and not so much gaming to a lot of people. Lord knows that FFXI turned into more of a job itself at a times rather than a game and even WoW certainly had we realized just what sort of treadmill I was on chasing a carrot. In fact, WoW ultimately ruined a lot of games for me by making look behind the curtain and realize that many games (SP included) were the types that were just Skinner boxes that tap into my brain's compulsion to check things off of lists and sometimes I'd just have to step back and say, "WTF am I doing?"

Of course, so long as it's not destroying my life, plug my ass into the matrix and let me pretend it's a delicious steak dinner. I'll try to suspend my disbelief about the fact that I'm spending hours earning 1s and 0s that will have no bearing on my life in anyway.

I dunno, maybe you could play it with your wife. It works for BoB and smitten!