The Movie Club - Week #6: Children of Men (Vivi22's Pick)

[Spooniest]

I would love to, but I don't have access to movies, as my connection is far too slow.

Plus, I'd just suggest something stupid like Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie. And then everyone would look at me over their glasses and say "Hmmmm...tolerable."

[Loony BoB]

Regarding the "what restrictions are we under" discussion - I'd prefer we only go for movies that have been released on DVD/Blu-Ray. I'm not going to pay for a cinema ticket to go see something unless I really, really want to see it, and I'm not going to download some cheap camcorder-in-the-cinema torrent, either.

Pretty sure I know what my choice will be. Not my favourite film of all time, but something that few of you would have already seen.

[Spuuky]

Club is now closed and Del Murder has been booted from the ranks. TB to follow if she makes us watch Titanic.

Come on now. John Woo has made some legitimately great movies. Red Cliff (at least, in its Asian form - I've never seen the abridged single-movie American release) is pretty top-quality and something I'd seriously consider recommending myself for this.

Also a lot of his early late 80's/early 90's stuff is really good.

[Nicolas]

Club is now closed and Del Murder has been booted from the ranks. TB to follow if she makes us watch Titanic.

Come on now. John Woo has made some legitimately great movies. Red Cliff (at least, in its Asian form - I've never seen the abridged single-movie American release) is pretty top-quality and something I'd seriously consider recommending myself for this.

Also a lot of his early late 80's/early 90's stuff is really good.

They really are. Hard Boiled comes to mind.

[Spuuky]

This post may contain mild spoilers or may not, and I don't really care, so read it at your own peril. Can you even spoil a movie like this?

This movie is really a reflection of a couple of things that are exceedingly prevalent in American cinema. It isn't a perfect, straightforward example of it, like Die Hard might be, but it's up there. Americans, as shown by their movies, care about a few things in particular more than other cultures do:

1. Individualism is Best
2. Government Conspiracies/Laws and Bureacracy Are Bad
3. Underdogs Must Win

Now, other cultures can certainly care about these things also; some care about particular elements a lot. But in American movies in particular, these are HIGHLY dominant traits, especially and most obviously in action films. Indiana Jones basically hits the nail(s) on the head here.

First off, he's clearly "in it for himself." He works alone, he's not part of some team, and he's trying to find things for his personal enrichment (in his case in particular, mostly knowledge). He isn't trying to achieve a greater good for society in particular. He's unique, non-conformist, and a Solo Badass Hero like so many others in movies.

Second, like most action heroes, rules and regulations don't apply to him; he needs to fight through the red tape to just do what's right, and the Government (almost always the Government) which should be on his side in the fight against the Nazis exists only to slow him down, and box up his Ark. One of the iconic lines of the movie ("Top Men") is a pretty clear and direct indication of the role of Government in this movie and most other American films; it purportedly exists to "help," but in practice it's a giant sinister shadow organization that is probably evil itself and just wants to hinder the Heroic Individual.

Third, most obviously, he's a constant underdog, having to fight off or escape large groups of better-armed people at all times. This one really needs no explanation, but it's worth noting that not all cultures care so much about the lesser, weaker force winning.

And there are guns and fists and stuff, too.

[Mercen-X]

Indiana is a bit of a superstitious nut too, not that it doesn't benefit him. He had no real reason to avoid looking at the Ark as it was opened and no logical reason to assume it was dangerous, but he closed his eyes anyway and told Marion to do the same. It feels as though it demands respect for what might otherwise be dismissed as laughable folklore which was the precise attitude held by Belloq shortly before he and his were slaughtered by supernatural powers.
A surprising fact about the most genre savvy moment in the movie (Indiana shooting the swordsman) is that it was originally scripted to be a long sword battle, but rather than having an epiphany of the character's common sense, the scene was shot due to Ford suffering dysentery. I had never known this and had always fell under the misconception this scene was a deliberate deconstruction of the heroic fight scene.
There is also much ado about nothing over the portrayal of Arabs being shoved up our pipes by people with political agendas to serve. The typical skunking comes in the form of "the Arab/Muslims are portrayed as violent and ignorant." However, the first Muslim we are shown in the movie is, in fact, a family man, a professional, and a good friend to Indiana. Then there is Imam, a scholar, priest, and astronomer who revealed the secrets of the medallion to Indiana.

[noxious.sunshine]

I know what my first pick will be. XD

[Shorty]

Indiana is a bit of a superstitious nut too, not that it doesn't benefit him. He had no real reason to avoid looking at the Ark as it was opened and no logical reason to assume it was dangerous, but he closed his eyes anyway and told Marion to do the same. It feels as though it demands respect for what might otherwise be dismissed as laughable folklore which was the precise attitude held by Belloq shortly before he and his were slaughtered by supernatural powers.

Really? Have you ever actually paid attention to this film? Do you remember at the beginning when he's going on to Brody about how it's all a bunch of hocus pocus and he doesn't believe in curses and whatnot? Indy is anything but a superstitious nut. He's observant and intelligent and he understands how the bible and all that folklore was written and what it must mean if he were in the actual presence of the ark. The whole point of Indy's realization to close his eyes is to be humble when in presence of the lord, which is something that if anyone were in the presence of the ark (which is an artifact in representation of god himself) should probably be smart enough to guess.

A deleted scene was shot where Imam, the wise man translating the markings on the headpiece of the Staff of Ra also translates another set of markings, which gives a warning about not looking into the Ark. Since this scene is not in the movie, it is a little confusing as to how Indy knew that he could only survive the opening of the Ark by closing his eyes. Perhaps he simply remembered the picture of the Ark he showed to the army officers; in it, an entire army is decimated, but the people carrying the Ark remain unaffected. So he may have concluded that opening the Ark is not necessarily deadly to anyone in close proximity, and that it is the visual contact that was deadly. Another option is that he remembered a relevant passage from the Bible (1 Samuel 6:19), where God "smote" the men of Beth Shemesh for looking into the Ark. Plus, there's a brief moment when Marcus Brody says the light from the Ark could lay waste to everything it touched, further warning of the Ark's power.

[Spuuky]

Given his Biblical knowledge it's by far more likely that he simply knows the relevant Bible passages.

He isn't a supernatural believer, though. It's only logical to close your eyes when they're opening it; either it disintegrates everyone but you (because your eyes are closed) or nothing happens, in which case it makes no difference that your eyes were closed. It's exactly what any sane, rational human being would do when presented with a device that they don't understand but have received some instruction (however much you believe it) regarding how to handle it.

[Del Murder]

First off, he's clearly "in it for himself." He works alone, he's not part of some team, and he's trying to find things for his personal enrichment (in his case in particular, mostly knowledge). He isn't trying to achieve a greater good for society in particular. He's unique, non-conformist, and a Solo Badass Hero like so many others in movies.

I disagree. Every treasure he acquires he donates to the museum. His conversation with Brody early on indicates that he will only agree to the adventure as long as the museum gets the ark afterwards. At the end of the movie, he insists that the ark should be studied, and though he doesn't say why, I think it's safe to assume it's because the world needs to understand the power it contains rather than for his own personal gain. Finally, his 'day job' is being a teacher. He clearly values knowledge, but not just for himself. He is fighting for the greater good of knowledge for all.

Also, he doesn't always work alone, even if he probably prefers to. He seems to have no objections to teaming up with Marion, Sallah for a brief while, and he has an established working relationship with Brody. In any case, preferring to work alone doesn't make a person an individualist.

I agree on your other two points, though.

[Spuuky]

Also, he doesn't always work alone, even if he probably prefers to. He seems to have no objections to teaming up with Marion, Sallah for a brief while, and he has an established working relationship with Brody. In any case, preferring to work alone doesn't make a person an individualist.

He agrees to work with people mostly because he has no choice. Also, because he likes ladies.

I can see the case that he's trying to achieve something for humanity as a whole, perhaps, but I still think it's more of a personal drive for his own knowledge. Also he wants things given to the museum specifically because of point 2, his distrust of governments and people in power and his fear that they just want to weaponize or control it rather than the other evil government doing the same thing.

[Del Murder]

I think it's more than just mistrust, but that's probably part of it. I think the fact that he's a teacher shows that he cares a lot about education and his adventures to collect rare artifacts are significantly motivated by his desire to educate people.

[Spuuky]

I think it's more than just mistrust, but that's probably part of it. I think the fact that he's a teacher shows that he cares a lot about education and his adventures to collect rare artifacts are significantly motivated by his desire to educate people.

Certainly characters are capable of having multiple facets.

The key point of American Individualism, anyway, is 'standing out' rather than 'fitting in' rather than a matter of selfishness vs altruism. And he doesn't conform to anyone's ideas of what he should be doing; he is driven by his own will.

[Araciel]

Still waiting for my "copy" to "arrive"

[Shiny]

Some VOD services offer you to watch a selection of films still in theaters. But yeah I'd only go for something accessible on the internet and/or DVD.

Anyway I will watch this tonight. I missed parts of it when I first viewed it.