Walking Dead Season 8 - Unmarked spoilers for aired eps in thread

[fire_of_avalon]

I strongly, strongly dislike The Governor, but I disagree completely that 1) he is a psychopath and 2) the character is flat. And I can't believe I'm about to defend him...

We've seen from the last two episodes that he is capable of fierce, deep and abiding love; even if it is unhealthy and possessive. After he gunned down the Woodburians, he became apathetic to his own life. He didn't dispatch the walker that came for him in the camp, he let it get almost close enough to rip his face off. After Martinez and Shumpert abandoned ship, he wandered just waiting for the inevitable. Then he met Lilly & Megan's family. He found his way back from a passivity with regard to death to actively caring about the well-being of other people and risking his life to provide meager assistance. Remember that he ventured alone into the nursing home to retrieve oxygen tanks for Lilly's dad? Remember that he tried to take them all back with him, but could only get two?

I think he really believed he had the opportunity to start over and truly didn't want to have the same power he had in Woodbury again... to begin with. That's why he killed Martinez, who offered to "share the crown" with him. While he was murdering Martinez he was repeating "I don't want it, I don't want it." Was it completely crazy to kill someone for offering to share power with you? Yeah, but if you consider that he believes a woman murdered his child in front of him, failed spectacularly in taking on the prison, massacred his own people in a fit of anger... yeah, I get that this crazy reaction is maybe not indicative of long term mental health issues. His reaction to Martinez isn't so much "I don't want to share" as it is "I don't want to become that monster again." I think being faced with the dead soldiers wearing the signs describing their wrong-doings (which were all things the Governor had also done!) was probably making him a little sensitive.

He tried to leave when he realized the camp was vulnerable and he was backsliding back into his old ways. The mud zombies were a heavy-handed metaphor to demonstrate the fact that he feels trapped and unable to make any move but murdery, coups to get power and stay safe.

In the end, he's murdered Pete because Pete stood between him and leadership, but I don't think he wants to lead for the sake of leading. He's a narcissist, that much is true, and he believes only at his direction will he be able to pool the resources of this group to protect the things he cares about.

Regarding the zombie aquariums, though, that's just plain crazy/a plot device to let the audience know HE'S BAAAAAAAAAACK.

His inability to coexist with the prison will be his undoing, and his inability to maintain his humanity. Again, as the whole Carol situation demonstrated, you can't lose your humanity protecting what you love. A monster doesn't get to have a family or love if being a monster is all they know or they can do.

I guess the reason I dislike him so much again, given the fact that they have developed him and the fact that they have shown he has some kind of backwards remorse, is the fact that he's so damn weak and just fell back to the old, failed way of doing things. He could be more than he's willing to be. And he's picking on my friends who just want to eat peas and sing to babies and try not to die of the ebola flu.

[Shaibana]

so at the end we saw Carl and Rick being bussy, and now im wondering where we are at.

there are 2 options though, we either get a ´flashback´ to the begining of the season through the Governor´s eyes and perhaps he did sabotage the prison by feeding the zombie´s the rats near the gate etc.

or that stays unsolved for now, if its not the governor then i still believe it was that little girl.

but seeing the situation, Hershel outside with Michonne, i´d guess its the 1st option

[Slothy]

Can you imagine him abandoning his new family if "necessary"? I easily can.

Then you weren't really paying attention.

Honestly, it seems FOA gets it (and is probably the only person to know what a psychopath is). The governor loves that little girl. In fact, he's very much using her as a surrogate for his own daughter. He's done everything he felt he could, in his own smurfed up way, to try and stop being the Governor and just be as happy as he could with that family. He shows no remorse when he kills because he feels what he's doing is right and justified to keep them safe. He kept his zombie daughter around because he was desperate to find a cure. An actual psychopath would have put a bullet in her brain and moved on.

I'm actually a bit surprised that this stuff isn't obvious. Now if we were talking about the comic Governor you'd be pretty much on point, but this guy isn't a psychopath. Everything he does is for a reason and to protect himself and people he cares about. Now what he does is really smurfed up, but that in and of itself doesn't make him a psychopath.

EDIT: The governor didn't sabotage the prison Shaibana. Where we see him outside of it at the end of the episode is clearly the first time he even cared about going there. And since we see Rick and Carl eating their peas and Michonne and Hershel outside the fence getting some supplies and stuff we're seeing him basically arrive at the prison right at the point he was revealed during the last prison group episode.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

The story he told in the last episode was his brother took the fall for something the governor did and his dad beat the crap out of his brother, and the governer let it happen, and the moral of that story was his brother was weak.

Actually, I figured this story was to show how the governor grew up with an abusive father and how that heavily contributed to the person he is now, as opposed to always being crazy. He grew up with violence.

I imagine the part where he thought his brother was weak was only said in hindsight. I bet at the time it happened he was scared for him.

[fire_of_avalon]

I think these last two episodes are really great tie-ins with the overall theme to the season, what Clara said to Rick after she stabbed herself; the question that Rick is constantly asking himself now: Do you get to come back from the things you did?

In the Governor's case, that answer is clearly "no." I think maybe too that's why I hate him so much - because there's no hope left for him and I'm a pretty hopeful kind of person.

In a way, Rick is also saying no. That's why he banished Carol - he couldn't let her come back form the things she did.

I hope that isn't the answer we arrive at for the end of the season, because that would be mega-sad.

[Shorty]

But I think it's a perfect example of The Governor trying to come back from what he's done. I still don't get the impression that he wants another Woodbury and I honestly think he is trying to come back from everything he's done in his own way, he's just executing those same behaviors with a different cause in mind.

I really want to believe he just cares about this woman and her child enough to let the world burn around them for it, and I'm okay with that.

[Shaibana]

EDIT: The governor didn't sabotage the prison Shaibana. Where we see him outside of it at the end of the episode is clearly the first time he even cared about going there. And since we see Rick and Carl eating their peas and Michonne and Hershel outside the fence getting some supplies and stuff we're seeing him basically arrive at the prison right at the point he was revealed during the last prison group episode.

hmm.. i dont know.. if it really was from where the governor got introduced the fence would be down, and hershel would Not be outside. Michone and darryl did already arive back at the prison, right?

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

Whoever it was feeding the walkers, they were being fed from the inside. That's why the walkers gathered in that one area and broke the fence in. Maybe an inside man?

[Shaibana]

Whoever it was feeding the walkers, they were being fed from the inside. That's why the walkers gathered in that one area and broke the fence in. Maybe an inside man?

i still suspect that kid. i just dont trust her

[Shorty]

It's pretty clear that it was those girls. It happened during that episode where they named one of them. I don't think it's really important anymore, in any case.

[Shiny]

If the story is true about his dad then that makes sense why he is the way he is. People who are abused like that as children have power struggles in their adult life. He wants to control people, but he doesn't really want the responsibility of doing so, he just likes the feeling of power and also of manipulating them to do what he wants. I think he genuinely cares for the little girl though, but I can see her not surviving this season.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

It's pretty clear that it was those girls. It happened during that episode where they named one of them. I don't think it's really important anymore, in any case.

Found this:

When a writer for The Hollywood Reporter asked TWD showrunner Scott Gimple if we will find out the identity of the rat pusher in the mid-season finale airing December 1, Scott said, “It will absolutely be answered, but I'm not going to tell you if it's in the season finale.”

I wouldn't count out other people quite yet. A lot of people are suspecting that maybe Bob is behind it, as he is a new guy that showed up when the trouble started happening. On top of the fact that (SPOILER)I read he was close to the Governor in the comics.

[Shorty]

Hm. I guess I don't really see a motive for him doing it, so it doesn't make sense to me. I guess we'll have to see!

[Freya]

I just now got to see this episode. Usually I see them when they air but I was sick last sunday.

I kinda liked martinez and now he's dead.

BUT A TANK. Try fending that off, rick!

[Dr Unne]

Martinez knew the governor from before and offered him leadership he didn't want. What are the governor's options? He has many. Talk to Martinez. Leave the camp. Stay silent and leave the camp if stuff gets bad later. But he jumps straight to "Kill Martinez and feed him to zombies".

Some guy in camp is a bad leader. Options? Talk to him. Call a meeting and try to convince the camp that he's a bad leader and should be replaced. Leave the camp. Governor's decision? Surprise murder.

In the last season, the governor finds some camp of army guys. Options? Ignore them. Keep an eye on them and defend yourself if they come close. Barter with them. Invite them into town. Governor's option? Ambush-murder, keep one of their heads in a jar.

Governor's motivations for murdering people include 1) you have something he wants, 2) you don't obey his orders immediately, 3) he wants to have a fun arena battle of you vs. zombies, 4) you used to know him and you might talk to people about it, 5) you're too hesitant to kill people and he thinks you're weak. Among others.

He doesn't value human life and has no regard for suffering beyond his own and people in his immediate in-group. It's interesting how this show seems to draw us a little bit into the mindset of a world where killing people isn't that big a deal. He seems to me to be irredeemable. I think you get to come back from the things you did if you're an otherwise good person who made mistakes. I think there's a limit.

Remember that he ventured alone into the nursing home to retrieve oxygen tanks for Lilly's dad? Remember that he tried to take them all back with him, but could only get two?

That's one of the few things that makes me doubt my psychopath theory.