And after the conversation was over, Clive took me aside. He said, "When we were talking, you were getting louder and louder."
I had been. It was a noisy bar. And I'd had important things to say and huge opinions and dammit, I was determined to be heard.
He said, "Neil, don't do that. If you get loud, everyone else gets louder to top you. And then everyone's shouting and nobody's listening. If you want everyone to listen to you, get quieter. People will listen."