Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham

[escobert]

I met a man who says that the Earth was covered in ice or something. Like the whole planet was just surrounded by... ice... or something like that.

I kind of tuned most of it out.

I hear ya. the worst part is I really really like the guy. He's VERY nice, intelligent for the most part. Knows TONS of stuff in the woods and has a green thumb like no other. He even states he believed in evolution while a high school student but "the facts told him otherwise" once he became more religious. As you can imagine I had some pretty lively debates with him about his views. He doesn't believe alien life is possible. So I asked him if god created the earth and all of the planets, why would he only put life on one? He replied that he likes to look at the rest of space since it's pretty, you know like a toy train set xD

[Ayen]

Yeah, I have a friend I've known since 2008 that's intelligent and awesome for the most part, then I found out she was a creationist and thought the 'evidence' science have uncovered was mostly made up.

I just slowly backed away. I saw nothing good coming out of that discussion.

[Dr Unne]

FYI all of this ice and water in the sky stuff is referencing Genesis 1:6-8:

6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

It was a giant dome made of ice or crystal or magic, and it held a huge amount of water above it. Holes would open up in the dome and that's where rain came from. Young-earth creationists believed that this actually existed, and that it's why (for example) people had a lifespan of 1000 years in the Old Testament, and it's where all the water came from for Noah's flood. This is called Canopy Theory.

This is Ken Ham's website discussing it: Noah's Flood - Where did the water come from?

[escobert]

interesting. I had never heard anything of this theory until Dan at work mentioned it.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I've heard of that theory, and the physics would simply be impossible on so many different levels.

I don't see how they can refute demonstrable science that can be backed up with repeatable results and yet claim to have "the facts" from a very old book and no way to back those "facts" up, yet still claim to be scientists.

[Slothy]

I don't see how they can refute demonstrable science that can be backed up with repeatable results and yet claim to have "the facts" from a very old book and no way to back those "facts" up, yet still claim to be scientists.

I guess it's not that hard when you just lie.

[Dr Unne]

I don't know if they're lying. I think they believe that God told them the truth, so everything that doesn't agree with that must be a lie, no matter how convincing it sounds.

Fossils? Maybe scientists are lying about where they found them. Maybe scientists did the math wrong. Maybe they're interpreting it wrong. Maybe Satan put fossils in the ground. Maybe God is testing us. The global flood is impossible because of physics? Maybe God changed physics after the flood. Maybe there are more physics that we haven't discovered yet. Evolution is starting to sound convincing? It's not true, it's a problem with your imperfect mind. It's Satan tempting you. The answer is believe harder in God.

You can build a 100% consistent view of the world using this framework, and it's not easy to dispel. That's the danger of faith.

[The Man]

Bill Hicks had a good routine about creationism:

“Fundamentalist Christianity: fascinating. These people actually believe that the world is twelve thousand years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them.

"Well, we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages? Twelve thousand years."
"Well, how smurfing scientific, OK. I didn't know that you'd gone to so much trouble there. That's good. You believe the world's twelve thousand years old?"
"That's right."
"OK, I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready?"
"Uh huh."
"Dinosaurs."

You know, the world's twelve thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, and existed in that time, you'd think it would been mentioned in the smurfing Bible at some point:

And O, Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus... with a splinter in its paw. And the disciples did run a-screamin'. "What a big smurfing lizard, Lord!"
"I'm sure gonna mention this in my book," said Luke.
"Well, I'm sure gonna mention it in my book," said Matthew.
"I'm not sure what I saw," said Thomas.
Timothy nudged him. "It was a big smurfin' lizard, Thomas!"
But Jesus was unafraid. And he took the splinter from the brontosaurus paw, and the brontosaurus became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch, O so many years, attracting fat American families with their fat smurfin' dollars to look for the Loch Ness Monster. And O the Scots did praise the Lord: "Thank you, Lord! Thank you, Lord!"

Twelve thousand years old. But I actually asked this guy, "OK, dinosaur fossils-- how does that fit into your scheme of life? What's the deal?" He goes:

"God put those here to test our faith."
"I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. I think I've figured this out."

Does that-- That's what this guy said. Does that bother anyone here? The idea that God might be smurfing with our heads? Anyone have trouble sleeping restfully with that thought in their head? God's running around burying fossils: "Ho ho! We'll see who believes in me now, ha ha! I'm a prankster God. I am killing me, ho ho ho!" You know? You die, you go to St. Peter:

"Did you believe in dinosaurs?"
"Well, yeah. There were fossils everywhere. (trapdoor opens) Aaaaarhhh!"
"You smurfin' idiot! Flying lizards? You're a moron. God was smurfin' with you!"
"It seemed so plausible, aaaaaahh!"
"Enjoy the lake of fire, smurfer!"

They believe this. But you ever notice how people who believe in Creationism usually look pretty unevolved. Eyes really close together, big furry hands and feet? "I believe God created me in one day." Yeah, looks like he rushed it.

Such a weird belief. Lots of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he's gonna want to see a smurfing cross, man? "Ow." Might be why he hasn't shown up yet.

"Man, they're still wearing crosses. smurf it, I'm not goin' back, Dad. No, they totally missed the point. When they start wearing fishes, I might show up again, but... let me bury fossils with you, Dad. smurf 'em, let's smurf with 'em! Hand me that brontosaurus head, Dad."”

[Slothy]

I'm sure not all of them are lying, but I do wonder about the ones using this garbage to try and make money.

[Shlup]

"Did you believe in dinosaurs?"
"Well, yeah. There were fossils everywhere. (trapdoor opens) Aaaaarhhh!"
"You smurfin' idiot! Flying lizards? You're a moron. God was smurfin' with you!"
"It seemed so plausible, aaaaaahh!"
"Enjoy the lake of fire, smurfer!"

Best part. Like, do Christians not realize their god is a total ass?

[Slothy]

"Did you believe in dinosaurs?"
"Well, yeah. There were fossils everywhere. (trapdoor opens) Aaaaarhhh!"
"You smurfin' idiot! Flying lizards? You're a moron. God was smurfin' with you!"
"It seemed so plausible, aaaaaahh!"
"Enjoy the lake of fire, smurfer!"

Best part. Like, do Christians not realize their god is a total ass?

Apparently not. And we don't even need the idea that he's screwing with us by putting fossils everywhere to come to that conclusion. If you can make it through Genesis without realizing God's a dick, you're probably a creationist.

[Jinx]

RE: The Man: Some Christians believe that the dragons mentioned in the Old Testament are what we know as dinosaurs today. Of course I don't agree with thim, but I suppose it's a justifiable correlation to make if you're trying to reconcile the two. Some Christians figure it probably just wasn't mentioned because not every animal in the world is mentioned in the Bible.

RE: Thread: I shouldn't have to say this, but I hope that you guys realize that a majority of Christians don't actually believe in Young Earth Creationism. I grew up in the Bible Belt, and of course I meant YEC. But even growing up in the most recognizably fundamentally Christian zone in the world, more people than not were Old Earth Creationists. Some even reconciled Evolution with Creationism, because they weren't ready to disparage science.

I just want people to remember this, because it's easy to put blinders on when you're poking fun at a group of people you don't like.

[Slothy]

RE: Thread: I shouldn't have to say this, but I hope that you guys realize that a majority of Christians don't actually believe in Young Earth Creationism. I grew up in the Bible Belt, and of course I meant YEC. But even growing up in the most recognizably fundamentally Christian zone in the world, more people than not were Old Earth Creationists. Some even reconciled Evolution with Creationism, because they weren't ready to disparage science.

I just want people to remember this, because it's easy to put blinders on when you're poking fun at a group of people you don't like.

Of course. Even amongst Christians, YEC's are a pretty fringe group as I understand it. When even the Catholic Church says you're full of trout and evolution is real, it's time for those people to take notice.

If I didn't make it clear before, anything I said disparaging religion and Christians in this thread was specifically directed at the YEC kind, since that's the kind Bill Nye had to debate.

[Pumpkin]

Of course. Even amongst Christians, YEC's are a pretty fringe group as I understand it. When even the Catholic Church says you're full of trout and evolution is real, it's time for those people to take notice.

Was just talking to sharky about this.

[Ayen]

If I didn't make it clear before, anything I said disparaging religion and Christians in this thread was specifically directed at the YEC kind, since that's the kind Bill Nye had to debate.

Likewise. It's comforting knowing they're the minority.